March 3, 2026
You’re never to old for coaching.
My next guest is Phil Dixon - a master coach. Phil has coached numerous leaders using a unique brain based approach to understanding what makes you tick and how you impact others. We will be discussing his approach, his successes and why you should never STOP seeking feedback and coaching to live your best life no matter your age.
NEXT! is broadcast live Tuesdays at 9AM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). NEXT! is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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The topics and opinions express and the following show are
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Hi, welcome to Next, And this is a show. There
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are a lot of next on podcasts, But the reason
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this is so different from the others, I guess that's
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a big word these days, is that really we're talking
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about people and their next careers, and really people who
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are in mid career who really don't love what they're
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doing or want to be in something next and don't
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quite know how to get there. And people who have
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had wonderful careers and are doing something exciting in their
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latter part of their life and really continuing on with
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great careers and not listening to what others say that, oh,
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you should be retired, or you should be this so
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you should be that they're creating really wonderful lives. Which
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brings me to Phil Dixon. Phil is and Phil, welcome aboard.
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How are you.
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I am great?
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Oh good, I'm so glad. So Phil and I have
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known each other a very long time and we've done
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a lot of interesting things together out in California. And
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Phil is still doing really interesting things. And he started
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a brain wise or brain based survey assessment, coupled that
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with psychology and really was able to help people get
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greater insight into themselves and to coach people around that.
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And it's really exciting to see what he's been able
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to do and he's still continuing that. And what's interesting is,
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you know, we had to chat the other day, and
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what's interesting is that you know, no matter what age
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you are, if you're older, it's still good to get coaching.
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So Phil, tell me why you got into this and
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why you got into the brain wise coaching area.
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Well, so I need to go back a little bit.
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So I did my master's degree when I was sixty
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and I was approximately twice the average age of the
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other people in the group. But I had a great time.
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It was counseling and coaching to change. It was learning
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about how organizations, teams, and people go through change, which
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was what I've been doing. Anyway, One particular thing made
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it different was they introduced the neuroscience of the brain, right,
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and I went, That's what I've been looking for for
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the last twenty years. How can we be more effective
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at coaching? So I think the latest phrase is pivot.
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I pivoted everything I was doing with the understanding of
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the brain, long and short of it, wrote a couple
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of books.
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And then, by the way, Phil.
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There certainly are there's certainly heavy duty books. Let's put
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it that way. I wanted I wanted to balance things
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between being approachable and being rigorous, and so maybe I
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erred on the side of rigorous, but you know, who knows. Anyway,
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then people ask me, what how do I assess my brain?
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And so I you know, we're all driven by a
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balance between threats and rewards. So I identified, you know,
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forty seven different types of threats which people respond to,
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and that's what the that's what the assessment came about from.
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Yeah, that's great. And don't you have an acronym safe?
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That's an old acronym I used to use the new
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one is what I call the five P models.
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Oh, give us that one.
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So we're driven by five things. Basically, we're wanting protection.
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The brain seeks protection, it seeks participation with others, it
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seeks prediction about what's going on. It needs to have
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some sort of pleasure and reward, and it needs to purpose.
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And so it's the five P model.
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Well, I like the five P model actually better than
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I like the safe model. But that was when we
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were out in California.
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That's exactly that was exactly right. That's things change in
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the brain world very quickly.
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They do they do. Are you seeing any impact of
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AI on on any of this?
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Huge impact? Tell me, tell me major, major impact. So
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a couple of ways, some of which we're doing ourselves.
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And that is the way the assessment used to work
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is that you go online, you answer the forty seven
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questions plus some ecological questions around the individual, and then
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it would be sent up to you know, a processing unit,
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which would then produce a report. Then I take the
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individual through the report. So, now what we've done, and
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we could not have done this before the you know,
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even a year ago, we couldn't have done this is
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what we've done is we've taken all those forty seven things.
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I'll give you an example, you know, the need to
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be recognized by people that are important to you as
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part of participation. And you know, what is it how
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do you behave or what's the impact to yourself if
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you score either high or low on that? What's the
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impact to other people? What's the impact if you overplay that?
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What's you know? And so we've done all of those
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interpretations through AI for all forty seven different facets, and
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so now robust, Oh, it's it's very it's a you know,
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it's a great It was. It was a tedious piece
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of work, but I could not have done it without AI.
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But now if Linda takes the assessment, we can also
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do some psychometric analysis immediately and say this is this
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is your strength, this is how you like you to
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play out, these are the things that you might be
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you might be worried about. This is what's going to
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cause you to enter into stress. And so we you know,
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it's truly a it's a predictive brain assessment.
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I need that. I need that phill I.
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You can do it. You can do it immediately after
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after the show.
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Okay, good, I need it. I need it. So why
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tell me a little bit about coaching being good at
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any time in your life, and even particularly now as
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people transition out of corporate jobs or other kinds of things,
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how how can they use coaching? And what you're thinking there?
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Well, first of all, I've been doing coaching for you know,
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thirty five years or perhaps even longer, and so therefore
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unbiased in the fact that I see the world through
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the through the see the world that through at least
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two lenses, one the coaching lens and the other is
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the brain lens. And so what I've found is that
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when people understand their brain, their brain. But let me
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stop for a moment, there's nothing we do or think
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about or respond to that doesn't start right between our ears. Everything,
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whether it's a great idea, whether it's to go out
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skiing or whatever it might be, it all starts with
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a with something going on in the brain. And so
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if I can coach people and understanding their brain, it
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gives them a platform, if you like, upon which to understand,
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you know, what causes them to behave the way they do.
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I think, so that you know that's number one. Number two,
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there are so many changes happening around us at the moment,
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and I you know, you know what is it? You know,
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plack when when the plates come together and change, I
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mean they are major major change is going on, one
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of which is which is AI on, one of which
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is the geopolitical changes that are going on them, So
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huge changes. And I have no doubts our brains will
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adapt and respond. They've done so before. When Gutenberg Press
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came along, people said, oh my gosh, the world's going
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to end. Well clearly it didn't. But it's the same
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level of change. Our brains weren't designed to to be
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able to read, for example, and so the brains adapted.
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We learn how to read, will adapt and learn how
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to use AI and leverage it.
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So did you see Matt Schumer did an article recently,
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and I believe he is the CEO of one of
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the big AI companies. I'm looking it up right now,
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but he really went into the fact that AI at
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the moment, I'm wondering what implication this has for coaching too. Really,
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at the moment that AI is gaining empathy, it's gaining
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ability to really emulate human behavior and human human thinking
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in a way that's almost staggering. And have you seen
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that article.
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I didn't see the article, but I have to agree
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with him. I think he's right. Yeah, yeah, you know
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it's not you know, there's going to be a fine
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difference between someone emulating empathy and empathy itself. Right, So
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when I say someone whatever, yeah, right, I actually use
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the AI agent, I use. I actually have a name
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for her, and now I know it's an it, but
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her name is female. It's Rain, and so you know
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I have a conversation with Rain on a regular basis.
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Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. How do you think that it's going
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to affect the coaching industry? I asked Marshall. We both
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know Marshall Goldsmith, right, A asked Marshall about this. He's
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doing a Marshall bot. But how do you think it's
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going to impact coaching?
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I think it drastically is going to Yeah, I think
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you know, for many people, I don't know what the
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right phrase is are here, So I'm going to invent it.
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I'll call it entry level coaching. I need some help
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to think about and fill in the blank. There's no
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reason to pay two hundred and fifty or five hundred
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dollars an hour to an individual. You can probably get
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ninety percent or maybe even greater from a from a
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you know, an AI coach. So I think from that level,
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whether whether or not someone's going to have the sort
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of sorry, the AI agents are going to have the
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subtlety that we might want to bring, or at least
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think we bring. I think that's open ended. I think
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there will still be a place for coaching, but it
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won't be at the prime, you know, the entry level.
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It will be at a more advanced level.
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At a much at a much higher level. Now, I
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want to go back to that other question I asked
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you about, is you know coaching people are seeking coaching,
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and obviously you do because you have rain, but seeking
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coaching and value of coaching for people in their seventies, yeah,
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or eighties.
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Actually, there's no there's no time when it stops. I
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don't think, you know. I'm I'm actually seventy six tomorrow.
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For you, happy birthday, no, thank you.
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And so I was talking to a couple of my
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colleagues two or three months ago, you know, anticipating being
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seventy six, and when I wonder what, I wonder what
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the next four years looks like what's it going to
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be like be eighty and so I they're coaches, and
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I asked them, would they do a reciprocal turn for
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me and start coach me? And they did and we
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had some wonderful conversations. But what I realized was that
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we have one coaching model, right, which we each each
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coach tends to have a model that they land on
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and they're comfortable with, right, and they would bring that
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to bear whether the person was thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, seventy,
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perhaps even eighty. And I started asking the question, well,
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wait a minute, does one model work for every age?
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And I don't think it necessarily does. So that's that's
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I mean, literally, this is one week old thinking at
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the moment, and so what I'm what I'm starting to
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do is sort of say, well, what are the different
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coaching thought processes that we need to bring for people
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in their sixties or seventies or eighties that that wouldn't
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necessarily apply. One of the things I've always done in
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coaching is how, you know, imagine your you know, to
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a forty year old, it will imagine you're seventy five,
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And what would the seventy five year old advise the
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forty year old, right, right, Well, that's that that model
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doesn't a different.
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Dynamic relevant, right, What would the eighty five year old
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advi the seventy six year old? Exactly? You're right, that's
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a different dynamic.
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So there's a different dynamic occurs. Also. You know, I
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think as I you know, some people say it's harder
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to change when you get older. I actually personally found
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it easier to change because I'm less attached to those
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things that. You know, as we grow older, things become
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less and less important to us, and we get less
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and less attached to them. So I think there's a
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dichotomy there. You know, in some cases we ossify, but
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in some cases it's easier to change.
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And you know, it's what's interesting with this thought process. Actually,
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I think your survey would really have a lot it
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would be interesting to use that survey with older people.
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And the reason I say that is because because the
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dynamics do change, and what they may have answered when
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they were fifty, let's say, maybe very different than how
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