A Dialogue with the Pipeman: TV and Podcasts at their Finest.

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0:45 Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining the show. I'm very excited about this show, as I'm excited about all the shows, actually. But I have today with me Dean K. Piper, who is actually the person that hosts these shows and has become a major influencer in his field. And I'm not quite... I can't actually remember how I ran into you, Dean, but it was. You know, he. He's just a powerhouse in terms of interviewing people, doing shows, highlighting issues. It's very exciting. So thank you for being willing to join the show today. I really appreciate it.

1:31 And there we go with your sunglasses. I love that. Now, why do you wear this? Tell me again why you wear the sunglasses. Well, part of it is it's my trademark, okay, as you can see even in the logo. And it's also, for those of you people that do podcasts out there or do any kind of radio show, a lot of times I notice people, you know, we grow up being taught when you talk to somebody, look them straight in the eyes. Yes. And if you look them straight in the eyes when you're doing these shows, you're not looking at the camera. And I can't tell you the hundreds of people I've seen as guests, hosts, what have you, that just are never looking into the camera. So for the viewers, they're looking and it looks kind of weird because they're looking somewhere else instead of in the camera. Whereas with this, you have no idea where I'm looking. I could be looking over to the left of me and it still looks like I'm looking at the camera.

2:30 Yeah, well, that's good. But I might have to adopt that. I don't know. I know, right? That's very good. So tell me, Dean, how did you get into... This field. Because you really have become a major influencer. Yeah, well, it's actually rather interesting because I didn't go in through the front door. I didn't even go in through the back door. It was almost like I fell through the chimney like Santa Claus. I like that. So anyway, basically... I used to be very big in the investment business and the motivational speaking business. I'm a published author, speaker, coach.

3:14 And I always paid to have a radio show. Before podcasting was a thing, before streaming was a thing, before even our phones and internet were a thing. And basically, when we started having the internet and phones, and then we started doing what they called then internet radio, which is now called streaming. They changed the name of it. So it sounded cooler, you know, and I saw different internet radio stations popping up. It did not run it like a professional station. Okay. They ran it at her bedroom and called themselves a radio station. They didn't have real equipment. They didn't have real engineers. Um, And they called it a radio station when they weren't licensed and paying royalties. And they called it a radio station. That's not a radio station. That's you as a hobbyist jumping on your computer and talking. Okay.

4:18 So to me, they're usually not very good. No, not right. And even if their content is good, the sound quality and then, you know, video wasn't a thing yet. And now we're doing it now with video and oh my God, I see some shows and the video quality. It's like, how do you call yourself a TV show? Like they'll call themselves a TV show. Like I can't even see what you look like. It's so blurry. And it's funny that people are so, let's say egomaniacal that they think their content is key and nothing else matters. And furthest could be from the truth because some of the top podcasts out there are not the, don't have the best content necessarily.

5:01 Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Content is important. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. Everybody thinks they have good content. Like when I have a guest that comes on my show and I screen them, the first question I ask them is, okay, so why should I have you on my show? It's a great question. Right? I knew why I should have you on my show. Exactly. And 99% of the time they say to me, because I have great content. And that's kind of an ego answer because that doesn't really say anything. You're like, that's great. And I say to them, well, that's great. So do thousands of other people. Now, what do you have? Yeah, right.

5:41 What's the next answer? That's the question. They never have the answer. Okay. Which tells me it's all ego because there has to be more. What makes it great content? They can't even answer that. Those are two great questions. I love that. But see, everybody I have on my show, I know. I mean, I know them personally. And so I know how they're going to do on the radio show. And you've been a great coach, actually. Well, thank you. And probably all the guests on your show are so great because they're not professional guests. What do I mean by that? Oh, tell me what you mean. Well, there's people that just guest on podcasts all the time like it's a hobby because they think they are. again, ego, they think they have great content. So they want to talk to hear themselves talk. It's usually those people that take over the show instead of having an actual interview. Okay.

6:38 And actually having real content. They're usually trying to make it more of an infomercial. And those days are over. Okay. The days now are storytelling and conversations and real. And those people, unless they have their sales pitch, they don't know what to say. If you throw them questions that do not align with her, their whole pitch, so to speak. And I do call it a pitch, you know, because even doing seminars is a pitch, you know, you do a seminar. Yes. I help people, but most speakers that do seminars, their ultimate goal is to get you to buy it back in room sales. Okay.

7:19 Oh, wait. Oh, say more about that. Well, like professional speakers. Have you ever noticed you went to a seminar and, Yeah, they give you the information, but if you really analyze the whole seminar, all of it is a sales pitch to get you to go to the back of the room and buy their programs, their webinars, their other seminars. I'm one of those people. That's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. I've done it too. But it's not what you do on a podcast or a radio show. It's what you do at a seminar. And I don't think they can differentiate the two. And when you're a guest, it's not your show. So it's not your business to give a seminar or lecture or an infomercial. It may be the host business to do that, but you're there as an added benefit, not the star. Like right now, it's just your world. I'm just living it.

8:13 I think you're the, I mean, see, I, well, I don't know. I guess I have to think about this a little bit more, but I think the. Star is the guest. I think the host is the person that maybe can draw them out, ask interesting questions, have a dialogue with them. I don't know. I do agree to a point. Okay, so here's the thing. If I were training you as a host, I would say something like that. Make the guest the star of the show. Ask questions that the listeners would be asking. You're the layman. You're not the expert when it comes to their content. But they are a guest. And a lot of times, they're not on for a whole show. It's kind of like, you go on Oprah, the guest is not the star of the show.

8:59 They're the star for like 10, 15 minutes. There's a difference. But people don't tune in for the guests. They tune in for Oprah, okay? The guests, they don't tune in for the topic or whatever. But the only reason they're there is because... Oprah's the star. And so that's what I'm trying to put across there is, you know, I come on your show right now. I may be the expert in what you're interviewing me on. Yeah. And I may be the star in that respect. The way I view it as the guest today, I'm the guest. You're the star. It's your world. I'm just living in it. That's why I'm on the right and you're on the left.

9:41 And I host the show. I'm on the left because I'm the main character and studies do show. That eyes focus on the left first, because that's how we read things. Unless, of course, you're reading Hebrew, then it goes the other way. So if we're doing a Hebrew show, I'd be the star. That's funny. the thing is, is that I don't even believe that guest should be on the whole show. Okay. They should be on for a portion of the show because people have a short attention span. Number one, number two, you can tell everything you need to tell in 15 minutes, you know, and, and, The rest of it is just fluff and added stuff. Perfect example, okay, is I do interview a lot of music artists and rock stars and celebrities. And, you know, no matter how big they are, the interviews are maximum usually unless it's really, really good, 15 minutes.

10:41 And even when they come to you, even when they come to you or their publicist or their record label or their PR, They tell you, you have this amount max period, you know, like, you know, and I've had times where I've even had a publicist say, you have a hard one minute and you have to be, to be a good interviewer. You have to be pretty good to interview somebody in a minute and get the information. And I did, you know, but it is, you know, there's a reason for it. That's why they call it the 15 minutes of fame. You know, that's interesting. I didn't realize that, but let me ask you this question. So my show is like really 30 minutes max.

11:22 Yeah. And there's a little intro and all that stuff, but I don't really, you know, it's not about me. It's about the person I'm interviewing. Do you think it's true? I don't, I don't disagree. I think during that time it's about them, but for the audience, it's about you. Your audience is your fans, your audience. They're coming because you're giving them an added benefit with the guest and their information. But they're not necessarily tuning in for that guest because it's a one-off. If they were tuning in for that guest, it would be the guest show. Okay? So, basically, like you do it. That's a good point.

12:02 I didn't think about that. Because in reality, you know, maybe people are tuning in because... they like what they see on the show and they like how perhaps, you know, how I interview people or draw people out. And so they come back. So I like that. And so think about it. Yeah. People are consistently going to come to your show, but if you have a guest that they're not interested in, they're still going to tune into a show for you. They not necessarily tune in for the topic or the guest on that particular episode. Okay. And, The thing is, is that, you know, it should be about the guest from your perspective. But then also from the guest perspective, it should be about you. So they don't monopolize the show.

12:54 I can tell you the episodes that get the worst ratings are the ones where the guest monopolizes the show and the host isn't able to get a word in edgewise. And I've had those. Oh, I've had one or two of those. Yeah. And I don't know how to shut them off, actually. That's the problem. Because even if you know how to shut them off, they don't shut off because they go into seminar mode. And they do think it's all about them. I don't want guests to come on my show that they think it's all about them. Me thinking it's all about them, that's different. You thinking it's all about them. But when they think it's all about them, it's not their show. So they have to respect that. respect that it is your show and to them, it should be all about you and they're adding benefit to the show. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's interesting.

13:49 It is a different perspective. Um, though, although I will say Dean that, um, generally I only have people on that. I really know. Um, and so, and you know, I set it up to be a dialogue and I say that, you know, we're just going to have a conversation. That's what this is all about. And I may ask you a question. I don't have a list of questions that I, I mean, some are obvious, you know, but the conversation drives the next question. At least that's my sort of take on things. A million percent. That's how I do all my interviews because the interview will take a life of its own.

14:29 It'll be boring otherwise. It'll be the same as everybody else's interviews because they're all asking the same questions too. If you do it that and the way other people do it. The way you do it, the way I do it, it makes it more interesting for the listener because they'll get little nuggets that they're not going to get in any other interview. And it's real. When it's scripted, people are not interested anymore. They used to be, but they're not anymore. Well, and you make a really good distinction between when you're leading a seminar, you're in the front of the room, you're giving a keynote speech. You're supposed to dominate that.

15:10 Yes. And even when I do that, to be quite honest with you, I will often engage the audience. Of course. I will actually walk into the audience. The best speakers do. You have to engage the audience. You can't just sit there and talk for three hours and not engage. Don't kill me now. Yeah, exactly. And same goes for a radio show or podcast. If you had a guest on that was the only person talking for a half an hour, people would tune out. Right. Simple. but people do it. Yeah, that's true. And you know, like I said, I did have out of all the shows that I've done, cause I've been doing a lot this year, but I did have a couple of people that just really dominated the whole thing. And, you know, I did have to shut them off and it's, it's uncomfortable. And you, that's what you, you say, you think somebody is really a good professional speaker or whatever, but, or they've been interviewed before that they know enough to pause.

16:10 You would think, but they're too busy talking to listen. Yeah. Yeah. That's listening is key. Let's say it's key even for responding. Like basically when you're talking to those people and I say those people, cause I've shared the stage with a lot of them and they're almost all the same is they're not listening when you're talking. They're thinking about how they're going to respond without even listening because they're worried about what they're going to say next, not what you want to hear next. Yeah. Big fundamental difference. Yeah, that's huge. That is huge. Yeah, exactly. And so back to, you know, your original question, you know, I saw where media was going. Kind of like when Bill Gates said to IBM, we're going to put PC in every home. And IBM said to him, That'll never work. The mainframe will never go away. And IBM still, since 1966, has still not recovered from that.

17:10 Yeah, well, you're right there. Right. Exactly. And that's what happens sometimes. There's always evolution. There's always innovation. And you have to be willing to change with the times. We have that in this industry, too. I call it WKRP and Cincinnati syndrome. Oh, tell me about, what's that? What's that? It was a 70s show about a radio station. Oh, I remember that. Yeah, so the point is, is these people that have been in radio for a long time, they want things to be the way they used to be. They're just not anymore, okay? So they refuse to let go of the past and refuse to innovate and evolve, and they're slowly dying. That's why terrestrial radio is dying, because they're still trying to do it the same way.

17:59 Wait, wait, wait, Dean, what is terrestrial radio? That's AM FM radio is terrestrial radio. Oh, I didn't know that. And it's interesting when FM first came out, everybody did the same thing too. They were like, oh, AM's never going to go away. You know, this new FM thing, it's no good. AM's going to be around forever. And those are the same people holding onto things. So when internet radio started out, I saw the vision. like Bill Gates of what we're doing right now. I saw the vision when we had flip phones, not smartphones of, Hey, I used to tell people you're going to listen to radio on your phones. You're going to have connected devices like your phone in your car. And, and terrestrial radio is going to be a less of a thing and probably go away. And people thought I was nuts and that terrestrial would never go away. And we're experiencing it now, you know, look at the younger generations. When's the last time they turned on an AM FM station? I get, I, if you took a survey, probably never, you know, they listen.

19:08 Dean, how do you know? Well, say more this, but I mean, I turned my radio on in my car. I have it set to certain stations that I like. You do. Yeah. You're going by your generation, which is, you know, our generations are the generations that are going away. But the younger generations, you know, the alphas, the Gen Z's, the millennials, you go interview some of these people. They do. They don't listen to AM FM just like they don't have cable TV because they don't even want something as commercials. You know, a lot of them, you know, but because we all have our phone at all times, we and we.

19:50 don't need those things. When I go into my car, I plug in my phone. I don't turn on an FM station. I plug in my phone and people consume. Where do you, where do you get you? I don't understand. You plug in your phone, but it's like, you have to have music on your phone. Like, no. Yeah, of course. So I'll listen to stuff like my radio station or like Apple Music or like Pandora or like Spotify. Spotify is huge. That's where people find new music nowadays, not an FM station. It's from Spotify. And so I saw this all happening, but nobody wanted to believe me. But I also, coming from a very professional business, If it was going to be the mainstream, you had to treat it professionally. You had to have professional studios, state-of-the-art equipment. You had to hire professional engineers. You couldn't just buy a $ 50 package and then go do it in your bedroom. That's not going to work.

20:54 A lot of people do that, though, actually, but I'm in my office. Yeah, they do, and it's different, but you're not even doing that because you're going through our network. Correct. So the DIY people are doing that, and they're dying. It's just like when the dot-coms came out. There were like thousands of dot-coms. And who were the ones that survived? Not the ones that said, oh, there's never going to be brick and mortar again. It's the ones that combined forces with the brick and mortar. Amazon combined with Barnes & Noble. And I forget who it was. And Toys R Us, too. And look, Toys R Us is gone. They're making a comeback now. But listen, Amazon partnered with Toys R Us already. And Amazon's one of the biggest companies in the world, and Toys R Us went bye-bye.

21:40 So it's more of a matter of combining both worlds, treating it professionally, and it's the same in this world. Listen, the big boys are taking over now. If you turn on Netflix right now, what do they feature first? Podcasts, not their movies. If you turn on Hulu, same thing. And so the major... companies are taking over and they're putting billions of dollars into it. You can't compete with them by being some DIY in your bedroom with some crappy mic and your, or your phone. Some of them do it by their phone. And like, it's one thing like you doing it because we're still there as a network with an engineer, mixing the sound, mixing the, making the video.

22:29 Exactly. Exactly. And that's what people are into. And that's what made me get so big because it was like, I did it. I modeled the terrestrial radio. So in the beginning, I remember I was getting friendly with these AM FM stations locally and they would walk into my studios and they'd be like, Oh my God, you are a real radio station. Cause their viewpoint was all these other Yahoo's are not real radio. Plus, The DIY people are not doing it legally. And now it's beginning to get, you know, it's beginning to get like regulated very strongly. We should continue this because we are running out of time, actually.

23:14 Yes, we are running out of time and we will continue it. But I'll, you know, send you a note because it's very interesting, fascinating to me. We'll have to do a part two where I go through, you know, and go through where we are now. But I think you got to kick me off the show because I dominated too much. Yeah, you did what people are not supposed to do. But anyway, Dean, thank you very much. I will get back with you. And let's do a part two because I think this is fascinating because I do want to ask you about AI and where that's going to go. I mean, see, I walk into my house and I just say, whatever, you know, play me.

23:59 The top 10 hits. Right. And it plays throughout the house. Yep. Well, we will have a part two about that for sure. We will have a part two. So thank you so much for joining me today. And I have to say to everybody that's listening, you know, you've been great. You've been great to work with. Your people have been great. Rebel's fabulous. And, you know, I'm just, I don't know how we got connected, but somehow or another we did. And I'm glad we did. There you go. I love it. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Dean, and we'll talk to you again. All right, everybody, I hope you got, and I'm definitely going to have Dean back. Obviously, he's the one. That produces, his group produces this show, and I think they do a really great job.

24:43 And he's right. I've got a lot of do-it-yourselfers who are sort of in my network, so to speak, and I think there's a big difference. I mean, I think there's a huge difference. So thanks for listening, and join me again next Tuesday at nine Eastern time.