Sept. 1, 2026

Unlock your hidden potential.

Show Notes
Transcript

We are have more potential then we realize and we often underplay it. Join me with Janice Perkins who is an extraordinary master at bringing out the best in you and seeing and leveraging your hidden talents. Janice is a world renowned executive coach. She is not just an executive coach with uncanny insights and observations-she is a catalyst for transformation helping individuals , teams, and organizations achieve greatness. Join me for this insightful conversation where you can learn your NEXT.

NEXT! is broadcast live Tuesdays at 9AM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). NEXT! is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

NEXT! Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/next--6825610/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.070 --> 00:00:02.250
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are

2
00:00:02.290 --> 00:00:03.950
solely those of the host and their guests and not

3
00:00:03.990 --> 00:00:07.089
those of W4CY Radio, its employees or affiliates. We make

4
00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.080
no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services or

5
00:00:10.099 --> 00:00:13.019
products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability

6
00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:15.779
explicit or implied shall be extended to W4CY Radio or

7
00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:18.519
its employees or affiliates. Any questions or comments should be

8
00:00:18.539 --> 00:00:21.879
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W4CY Radio.

9
00:00:45.729 --> 00:00:50.850
Hello, thank you everyone for joining the show today. I'm very,

10
00:00:50.909 --> 00:00:54.950
very excited to have Janice Perkins, who you're going to

11
00:00:55.020 --> 00:01:00.140
find is really a spectacular individual. She is able to

12
00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:04.459
tap into your hidden potential that most people often don't

13
00:01:04.579 --> 00:01:09.049
see in themselves. And Janice can help bring that out

14
00:01:09.340 --> 00:01:16.049
through her coaching and through her executive experience. And she

15
00:01:16.269 --> 00:01:22.099
has helped many, many leaders and executives really find out

16
00:01:22.219 --> 00:01:26.260
how to shine and what's their secret sauce. So with that,

17
00:01:26.459 --> 00:01:28.920
I'd like to introduce Janice Perkins.

18
00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:34.079
Good morning, Linda. Such a pleasure to be here this morning.

19
00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.079
Well, it's so nice to have you, Janice. I just

20
00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:40.500
think back of that great fun time we had in Washington, D.C.,

21
00:01:40.609 --> 00:01:43.549
out in the garden and, you know, talking. And it

22
00:01:43.569 --> 00:01:48.420
was just it was just. Wonderful. So expert on chemistry

23
00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:52.430
in coaching. I love that tagline. That's beautiful. What made

24
00:01:52.450 --> 00:01:53.109
you pick that?

25
00:01:53.129 --> 00:01:53.420
Thank you.

26
00:01:54.569 --> 00:01:58.629
Well, I just finished my PhD in May and my

27
00:01:58.689 --> 00:01:59.730
research was on chemistry.

28
00:01:59.750 --> 00:02:04.150
Congratulations. Thank you. That's a big deal. I saw the

29
00:02:04.189 --> 00:02:07.030
doctor in front of your name. That's a big deal. Yeah.

30
00:02:07.230 --> 00:02:08.590
It felt like giving birth for sure.

31
00:02:08.610 --> 00:02:13.490
I'm just really fascinated by the connections that happen between

32
00:02:13.530 --> 00:02:18.180
people and the acceleration that can take place. Part of

33
00:02:18.250 --> 00:02:21.500
it comes from a fascination of coaching sports for a

34
00:02:21.539 --> 00:02:26.159
while and also being an athlete and seeing how on

35
00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:31.780
the athletic side, leadership, embraces the use of chemistry more

36
00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:32.860
than on the corporate side.

37
00:02:33.490 --> 00:02:36.729
And so I really wanted to understand in coaching, right?

38
00:02:36.969 --> 00:02:42.129
Chemistry really builds momentum in the practice of coaching itself.

39
00:02:42.349 --> 00:02:46.669
And how can we learn what it is, how it's

40
00:02:46.729 --> 00:02:48.639
built and how to teach others to use it?

41
00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:53.879
Wow. So you are really starting your next now. Your

42
00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:58.300
next is Dr. Janice Perkins helping people with their chemistry.

43
00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:03.689
How do you help people to tap into what their

44
00:03:03.729 --> 00:03:07.810
chemistry is? How do you get them to discover that? Mm-hmm.

45
00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:12.009
The interesting thing about chemistry is that it has to

46
00:03:12.069 --> 00:03:14.349
manifest between two people, right?

47
00:03:14.409 --> 00:03:16.370
It's not just individually held.

48
00:03:16.569 --> 00:03:20.090
Although what I did find in certain situations, Linda, that

49
00:03:20.110 --> 00:03:24.080
I found fascinating is that within a relationship, chemistry can

50
00:03:24.099 --> 00:03:29.479
be asymmetrical. So one person can carry the chemistry until

51
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.919
the other person catches it, so to speak.

52
00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.120
Interesting. Interesting.

53
00:03:34.289 --> 00:03:39.319
Interesting, especially the outcomes for leaders relative to that and

54
00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:45.039
other coaches is that in any relationship, there is ownership

55
00:03:45.139 --> 00:03:48.530
on both people to eventually, right, share in the chemistry

56
00:03:48.590 --> 00:03:51.210
and the space between them. But we do have a

57
00:03:51.270 --> 00:03:55.330
responsibility as the coach or as the leader to hold

58
00:03:55.370 --> 00:03:57.449
the chemistry or carry it when others can't.

59
00:03:57.870 --> 00:04:05.219
Wow. So do people eventually catch joint chemistry together? I mean,

60
00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:09.990
does it eventually become that sort of chemical spark between

61
00:04:10.009 --> 00:04:10.569
the two of them?

62
00:04:11.250 --> 00:04:14.110
You know, interestingly enough, in all my coaching pairs, yes.

63
00:04:14.430 --> 00:04:16.689
But what I did find is there are different layers

64
00:04:16.769 --> 00:04:20.660
to chemistry. Meaning for some people, it's very transactional. And

65
00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:22.939
for other people, it can be all the way down

66
00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.889
to being felt somatically, right? Like The chemistry gave me,

67
00:04:26.910 --> 00:04:32.100
you know, goosebumps or that aha moment or something like that,

68
00:04:32.339 --> 00:04:33.319
that's more felt.

69
00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:37.699
But for others, it is the conversation just flowed easily, right?

70
00:04:37.730 --> 00:04:41.629
And so it's much more transactional, but all of them

71
00:04:41.709 --> 00:04:42.490
felt chemistry.

72
00:04:42.629 --> 00:04:46.379
It just manifested at different stages for each of them.

73
00:04:47.670 --> 00:04:50.529
So how does this way, I know this is off

74
00:04:50.550 --> 00:04:53.439
your topic just a little bit, but how does this

75
00:04:53.540 --> 00:04:58.060
manifest itself in love relationships? Because love relationships that people

76
00:04:58.220 --> 00:05:01.560
often talk about, well, we just had this chemistry, but

77
00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:04.819
sometimes that's not enough and it doesn't work out. So

78
00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:06.720
do you have any insight into that?

79
00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.660
I am going to take a couple guesses at it.

80
00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:14.379
I think it's really interesting because chemistry in that romantic

81
00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:16.199
sense is what we understand, or.

82
00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:17.199
Maybe in athletics.

83
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:20.730
And I do think that related to the intimacy of

84
00:05:20.750 --> 00:05:24.800
a romantic relationship, there are other things that play into it,

85
00:05:24.930 --> 00:05:26.370
including other hormones.

86
00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:28.860
And other things, right, that.

87
00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:34.339
Make us attracted biologically to certain people that play into chemistry.

88
00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:38.490
But I do think that that adds to the chemistry

89
00:05:38.529 --> 00:05:41.350
happening quickly. But I think it can happen like you

90
00:05:41.389 --> 00:05:44.029
and I, we experienced in the first time we met

91
00:05:44.350 --> 00:05:50.009
on the patio, we had very instant chemistry in orientation, right?

92
00:05:50.050 --> 00:05:53.470
We both felt there were so many commonalities, but we

93
00:05:53.490 --> 00:05:57.470
were also kind of mutually oriented in that situation to

94
00:05:57.509 --> 00:06:00.810
being open and vulnerable to each other and sharing. And

95
00:06:00.860 --> 00:06:04.199
when you enter the space with the same mindset, that

96
00:06:04.339 --> 00:06:08.920
automatically creates some of that orientation that where chemistry can thrive.

97
00:06:09.379 --> 00:06:13.699
Wow, that's really, really interesting. So Janice, how did you

98
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:18.129
get into this? How did you, was this a long

99
00:06:18.250 --> 00:06:22.730
journey for you that you discovered this? What brought you

100
00:06:22.790 --> 00:06:24.389
into this space in the first place?

101
00:06:25.089 --> 00:06:27.970
I think initially when I was coaching my daughter in

102
00:06:28.009 --> 00:06:31.910
volleyball for probably about eight years, as well as just

103
00:06:31.970 --> 00:06:35.649
remembering being an athlete, there are so many times when

104
00:06:35.670 --> 00:06:39.990
the right people on the court aren't exactly the same

105
00:06:40.209 --> 00:06:45.149
every single time. It's a really interesting thing that one

106
00:06:45.250 --> 00:06:50.850
player's mindset, mentality, everybody can be off. And it's not...

107
00:06:51.629 --> 00:06:55.860
an easy equation that that player is the best at

108
00:06:55.980 --> 00:07:00.319
that position. And so everything should be better. Sometimes the

109
00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.569
chemistry on the court is what you're looking for and

110
00:07:03.610 --> 00:07:06.029
you can't guess until you get the right people in it.

111
00:07:07.029 --> 00:07:11.350
And that was always really interesting to me because it's unpredictable.

112
00:07:11.980 --> 00:07:14.699
And it moves and it's flexible and pliable. And you

113
00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:17.800
have to be open to, as a coach, to not

114
00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.189
try to force the equation to be exactly what you

115
00:07:21.209 --> 00:07:24.569
want it to be for the outcomes. And I just

116
00:07:24.629 --> 00:07:27.009
realized the more I got into coaching that the same

117
00:07:27.129 --> 00:07:31.459
factor was at play and what happens in a coaching relationship,

118
00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:36.160
and how much we don't understand that from a leadership perspective,

119
00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.879
and we're not utilizing it. Especially when I hear leaders

120
00:07:39.939 --> 00:07:44.379
talk about learning techniques, and they're focused on engagement, and

121
00:07:44.490 --> 00:07:49.610
all these other disciplines related to leadership. And yet, energetically,

122
00:07:50.029 --> 00:07:53.589
they're buzzwords, and we can know about them all day.

123
00:07:54.660 --> 00:07:55.519
And develop them.

124
00:07:56.060 --> 00:08:01.040
Yet, if energetically my mindset isn't open to chemistry, I'm

125
00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:05.579
probably not utilizing or tapping into even half of what

126
00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:06.879
I could be in the relationship.

127
00:08:07.980 --> 00:08:12.199
So have you had situations? What do you do actually

128
00:08:12.250 --> 00:08:16.350
when you can't tap into somebody's chemistry or you have

129
00:08:16.370 --> 00:08:19.509
a group of people and the chemistry is just, A,

130
00:08:19.930 --> 00:08:22.930
have you had situations like that? And then what do

131
00:08:22.990 --> 00:08:23.370
you do?

132
00:08:24.579 --> 00:08:28.160
Well, I actually had recently a team that I was

133
00:08:28.220 --> 00:08:29.750
working with that had been in.

134
00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:29.939
They.

135
00:08:31.259 --> 00:08:34.090
Were in a divisive kind of situation and they weren't

136
00:08:34.149 --> 00:08:35.190
very collaborative.

137
00:08:35.870 --> 00:08:37.750
And I did two things.

138
00:08:38.070 --> 00:08:41.149
One, I had everyone stand up and stand beside each

139
00:08:41.210 --> 00:08:45.889
other in a row as a physical reminder that we

140
00:08:45.909 --> 00:08:48.549
were all on one team against whatever obstacles.

141
00:08:49.470 --> 00:08:49.950
Sometimes.

142
00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.460
putting the.

143
00:08:51.379 --> 00:08:55.799
Physicality of the situation back in the right position changes

144
00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:56.500
our mindset.

145
00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:58.889
And so that's kind of how we started.

146
00:08:59.289 --> 00:09:01.649
And then I also had them do an activity where

147
00:09:01.669 --> 00:09:06.740
we were all physically interacting. We actually kind of like stomped, snapped, clapped,

148
00:09:06.820 --> 00:09:11.990
and like made a song together. And forcing collaboration into

149
00:09:12.070 --> 00:09:16.330
a completely other area before asking for it to come

150
00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:19.889
into the intellectual were two different pathways that I was

151
00:09:19.990 --> 00:09:23.730
using to build that chemistry before we went into the

152
00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:25.570
subject matter, if that makes sense.

153
00:09:25.929 --> 00:09:27.929
That makes a ton of sense. And did it work?

154
00:09:28.610 --> 00:09:29.710
It did.

155
00:09:29.789 --> 00:09:30.429
Absolutely.

156
00:09:30.970 --> 00:09:34.370
Are you still working with that group today? Yes, I am.

157
00:09:35.190 --> 00:09:38.990
I have a follow-up next month with them. And by

158
00:09:39.029 --> 00:09:40.549
the end of this, we were together like two and

159
00:09:40.580 --> 00:09:46.200
a half hours. There was openness, vulnerability, sharing, cooperation. There

160
00:09:46.220 --> 00:09:51.080
was all this really amazing transactional. I did an interview,

161
00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:54.470
each of them individually, to find out where they felt right.

162
00:09:54.490 --> 00:09:57.379
The level of chemistry, but everything shifted.

163
00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:03.779
Well, that's really great. Now, do you ever, I have

164
00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:08.159
this personal experience where you get people into that phase

165
00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.889
and then you have them stay overnight together where they're,

166
00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:14.250
you know, at a retreat or something and they have

167
00:10:14.269 --> 00:10:16.029
to have dinner and they have to do all this stuff.

168
00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:18.870
And then the next day they just take off like rockets.

169
00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:22.960
Have you experienced that? Yeah, I have.

170
00:10:22.980 --> 00:10:27.460
I did a similar retreat a year or so ago

171
00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:32.389
with another leadership team that was also struggling and wanted

172
00:10:32.429 --> 00:10:34.070
to do a retreat and escape.

173
00:10:34.169 --> 00:10:37.970
And the very same thing happened. We opened the retreat.

174
00:10:37.370 --> 00:10:42.049
And by the next day, there was more cohesiveness. And

175
00:10:42.090 --> 00:10:46.750
I think that also happens because you're outside of your

176
00:10:46.789 --> 00:10:49.179
typical geography and your working environment.

177
00:10:49.690 --> 00:10:49.850
Right.

178
00:10:49.870 --> 00:10:51.210
And that can help you up too.

179
00:10:51.710 --> 00:10:51.990
Right.

180
00:10:52.450 --> 00:10:52.649
Right.

181
00:10:53.230 --> 00:10:56.299
So, so Janice, now that you've gotten, well, oh, I

182
00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:59.820
have another question before this one. What was your worst nightmare?

183
00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:08.710
With a client? Yeah. Or situation. There was a client

184
00:11:08.809 --> 00:11:10.669
or situation, but worst nightmare.

185
00:11:12.090 --> 00:11:15.559
There was one coaching client that I had that, It

186
00:11:15.620 --> 00:11:20.419
wasn't really a nightmare. The client just wasn't making progress anymore.

187
00:11:20.539 --> 00:11:25.000
And I think that the relationship had gotten comfortable. And

188
00:11:25.210 --> 00:11:29.549
there wasn't as much allowance for me to challenge or

189
00:11:29.649 --> 00:11:33.990
create tension for growth. And because of that, I really

190
00:11:34.029 --> 00:11:35.769
just had to let that client go.

191
00:11:36.330 --> 00:11:37.990
So that was just an uncomfortable.

192
00:11:38.009 --> 00:11:39.629
It was.

193
00:11:40.210 --> 00:11:42.690
Maybe an 18-month coaching engagement.

194
00:11:42.809 --> 00:11:44.210
And by that time, it was.

195
00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:50.600
It had just, it had passed its viability, I think,

196
00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:53.600
as a stage in that relationship. That was just hard

197
00:11:53.779 --> 00:11:57.070
because I really wanted the client to continue growing. The

198
00:11:57.149 --> 00:12:00.549
other situation that was incredibly challenging for me was a

199
00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:06.389
particular client and they wanted to do some leadership development

200
00:12:06.429 --> 00:12:11.649
training for a blue collar sector of the organization, their manufacturing,

201
00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.340
and it required a translator. And it was my first

202
00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.659
experience doing that. And I would do it much differently.

203
00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:21.899
In fact, what we talked about doing with the client

204
00:12:22.179 --> 00:12:26.049
is really having probably headset translators would have been more fluid,

205
00:12:26.110 --> 00:12:29.029
but it was cost prohibitive. So we had a live

206
00:12:29.110 --> 00:12:32.669
translator and it just broke the rhythm of the training, right?

207
00:12:33.129 --> 00:12:35.759
It broke the rhythm of the training for both myself

208
00:12:36.100 --> 00:12:40.659
and the recipients of the content and the translator.

209
00:12:40.820 --> 00:12:41.200
And so.

210
00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:44.919
I feel like it was just an absolute chemistry killer

211
00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:47.769
because there was too, there was too much time in

212
00:12:47.789 --> 00:12:50.590
between things and there wasn't a flow of information. So

213
00:12:50.690 --> 00:12:52.990
I would just do it very differently if I did

214
00:12:53.009 --> 00:12:55.350
that in the future. That was, but that was like,

215
00:12:55.450 --> 00:12:57.190
you know, you're in it and you just got to

216
00:12:57.230 --> 00:12:57.970
stay with it.

217
00:12:58.490 --> 00:13:03.980
What do you do? And we, we kept.

218
00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.100
Laughing that it was awkward and clunky and we were.

219
00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:10.240
Just going to keep moving. Yeah. Yeah. I've had that

220
00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.029
happen to me, too, in Japan. It was horrible. I

221
00:13:13.070 --> 00:13:15.429
hate it. And I've also had it with the headphones.

222
00:13:16.730 --> 00:13:19.769
That's not a hell of a lot better, I don't think.

223
00:13:20.470 --> 00:13:23.809
Probably not. But it is difficult. It's difficult to keep

224
00:13:23.850 --> 00:13:29.100
that connection and that chemistry going with the group. Right.

225
00:13:29.139 --> 00:13:34.519
So now that you're Dr. Janice Perkins, how exciting. What's

226
00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:39.320
next for you? What's the next big thing on your horizon? Horizon. Hmm.

227
00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:41.919
That's a really good question. I have been doing a

228
00:13:41.970 --> 00:13:42.769
lot more writing.

229
00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:46.690
I definitely want to kind of translate the research that

230
00:13:46.710 --> 00:13:50.190
I found in my dissertation into public facing content that

231
00:13:50.230 --> 00:13:53.120
people can use. And so I'm actually writing on the

232
00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:56.480
academic side and the public side. And I just got

233
00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:00.279
back my first, apparently in academia, it's very, it's great news.

234
00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:01.559
I got a revise and.

235
00:14:04.549 --> 00:14:08.899
So that the research itself over a series of articles

236
00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:12.419
can really be published on the academic side for other researchers.

237
00:14:13.259 --> 00:14:16.340
There are lots of theoretical implications into some of the

238
00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:20.700
leadership theory related to my research, which was really, that's

239
00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.570
really fun, that there's gonna be like a long lasting

240
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:27.669
impact in the leadership theory field. And then just translating

241
00:14:27.789 --> 00:14:30.149
all of that on to the public side. So other

242
00:14:30.230 --> 00:14:35.629
coaches and leaders can benefit from right? The learned aspect

243
00:14:35.669 --> 00:14:41.490
of chemistry, right? Sometimes, sometimes chemistry in its instantaneous nature

244
00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:45.009
can't be contained or controlled. It's a little bit like fire,

245
00:14:45.509 --> 00:14:48.490
but also you can put the right ingredients there and

246
00:14:48.549 --> 00:14:51.190
still build it. And so I think that that is

247
00:14:51.230 --> 00:14:53.379
the important thing for us to understand about it.

248
00:14:53.870 --> 00:14:57.250
So what are some of the right ingredients to put

249
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.100
there so you can build it? I mean, obviously you

250
00:15:00.139 --> 00:15:02.590
can see it, but you know, somebody who's in the

251
00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:06.129
midst of it can't maybe necessarily see it. Right.

252
00:15:06.289 --> 00:15:08.690
I think what I, from the research, there were a

253
00:15:08.750 --> 00:15:13.610
couple of simple ingredients in the soup that didn't guarantee chemistry,

254
00:15:13.789 --> 00:15:17.460
but definitely were present. And from the coach side, the

255
00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:23.039
credibility and safety, the, in that relational container or that

256
00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:27.919
relational space, a tuned presence and Shared ownership, meaning that

257
00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:34.990
you allow the client to guide the exchange in the

258
00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.549
coaching session. And then also continuity. So that opening the

259
00:15:39.590 --> 00:15:43.830
session is consistent. My welcome, how we warm up and

260
00:15:43.850 --> 00:15:46.990
get to know each other, how we close, right? That

261
00:15:47.250 --> 00:15:51.470
I'm continuously showing up in a very consistent way and

262
00:15:51.490 --> 00:15:52.490
it creates continuity.

263
00:15:53.009 --> 00:15:55.500
From the client side, there really has to.

264
00:15:56.500 --> 00:16:00.139
There has to be a willingness and a readiness and

265
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.620
openness to challenge so that I might be willing, but

266
00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:05.820
I might have limitations to how much I let you

267
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:07.500
challenge me, right?

268
00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:09.590
That's a chemistry killer.

269
00:16:10.330 --> 00:16:13.649
And that there's a reciprocal engagement so that there's an

270
00:16:13.710 --> 00:16:16.870
acceptance to the tension and challenge and an ownership of

271
00:16:16.909 --> 00:16:20.610
the outcome and the process. And those things, when they're

272
00:16:20.669 --> 00:16:24.090
in the soup, have a much more likelihood than of

273
00:16:24.149 --> 00:16:27.659
chemistry opening. And what I call it, what I found

274
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:29.860
in the research is that chemistry opens through one or

275
00:16:29.899 --> 00:16:30.659
more gates.

276
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:32.379
Oh, interesting.

277
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.019
It doesn't have to look or open the same each time,

278
00:16:37.230 --> 00:16:42.409
but there are six different gates. And that is after

279
00:16:42.490 --> 00:16:45.330
the ingredients are in the soup, that it can come.

280
00:16:45.350 --> 00:16:47.549
Out through legitimacy, right?

281
00:16:47.669 --> 00:16:51.200
In the way that there's credibility and competence that the

282
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:54.879
client then opens that chemistry to the coach, right?

283
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.480
Or whether it's through dignity, right?

284
00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.259
In the exchange of how I show up respectfully to

285
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.519
you or how they show.

286
00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:05.880
Up respectfully to you too. That's exactly right.

287
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:07.119
That's exactly right.

288
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.140
People see being valued and seen for who they are, right?

289
00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:16.000
And listening to that, that's really important. The other is

290
00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:19.549
through the relational container, right? And there are some coaches,

291
00:17:19.609 --> 00:17:22.029
and you know this, Linda, you do such an established

292
00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:26.589
job when we connected. The relational container we both brought

293
00:17:26.950 --> 00:17:31.009
to each other was like beautifully open. And that is

294
00:17:31.049 --> 00:17:34.329
something that leaders and coaches both can do. There's clear

295
00:17:34.430 --> 00:17:37.529
structure and boundaries, but also a great deal of openness.

296
00:17:38.869 --> 00:17:42.759
That readiness and willingness... is through agency, right?

297
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.700
The ability for as a coach or a leader.

298
00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:49.039
To constantly put back agency to the people that I'm

299
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.980
exchanging with, the way that I attune to the person.

300
00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:58.849
So attunement is another one through listening, validation, the responsiveness

301
00:17:58.910 --> 00:18:02.789
and deep listening. And then that orientation gate that I

302
00:18:02.829 --> 00:18:05.269
mentioned that you and I had even, where we had

303
00:18:05.349 --> 00:18:12.440
mutual shared direction and commonality, And whether that's goals, purpose, values, right,

304
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:17.180
just common ground, that simply itself can also open chemistry.

305
00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:18.980
So those were the things that I found that were

306
00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:22.210
really interesting. All of them don't have to be present.

307
00:18:22.609 --> 00:18:23.920
One can simply open it.

308
00:18:25.470 --> 00:18:29.049
You know, it's interesting. I had an experience. I was

309
00:18:29.069 --> 00:18:33.130
just on Long Island, as you know, and I ran

310
00:18:33.190 --> 00:18:38.099
into two people who actually were in the leadership field

311
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.240
and they actually were reasonably well known. I won't use

312
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:44.660
their names, but those two people stood there and talked

313
00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:49.000
at me for the better part of 20 minutes. And,

314
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.519
and I mean, I know you've had that happen to

315
00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:54.680
yourself and you just sort of go, I can't wait

316
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.180
to get out of here. But why do people, it

317
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.430
just shocked me that people with a high degree of

318
00:19:01.509 --> 00:19:06.519
education and frankly, what you would think that they would

319
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:11.319
have enough agency not to do something like that, but

320
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.819
they didn't. What do you do in a situation like that?

321
00:19:14.289 --> 00:19:17.170
You know, the interesting thing about chemistry, and I had

322
00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:21.250
that happen to me recently too, Linda, and a four-person

323
00:19:21.329 --> 00:19:27.319
kind of conversation, professional conversation, and one person kept interjecting

324
00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:28.900
their resume consistently.

325
00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:30.640
Right?

326
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.579
And what I found was.

327
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:36.599
The killers of chemistry are all wrapped up in avoidance, control,

328
00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:40.880
and power. And so when one of those is exercised

329
00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:43.349
by any member of the team or the group, it

330
00:19:43.390 --> 00:19:46.710
kills chemistry across the entire band, right?

331
00:19:46.849 --> 00:19:48.630
It's almost like popping a balloon.

332
00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:52.599
So the more that interjection of ego through power or

333
00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:57.740
control or in the situation that I encountered, right, the

334
00:19:57.859 --> 00:20:01.069
constantly trying to prove myself with a resume, right, that's

335
00:20:01.109 --> 00:20:02.890
not credibility, that's power.

336
00:20:02.910 --> 00:20:04.690
The way it was showing up.

337
00:20:05.329 --> 00:20:07.730
And so there was really no reason for me to

338
00:20:07.789 --> 00:20:09.289
continue to lean in. right?

339
00:20:09.309 --> 00:20:13.670
The chemistry is dead in that circle. I can remain present.

340
00:20:14.369 --> 00:20:17.980
I can remain in a transactional state and see if

341
00:20:18.019 --> 00:20:24.039
the resume, right, proving ends and the conversation could eventually

342
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:28.289
open chemistry, but I can also just recognize it for

343
00:20:28.329 --> 00:20:29.390
what it is, right?

344
00:20:30.029 --> 00:20:32.470
It doesn't enable anything to grow at that point.

345
00:20:32.950 --> 00:20:35.829
You know, when I see something like that happening, I

346
00:20:36.369 --> 00:20:41.039
personally feel that you're dealing with an incredibly insecure individual,

347
00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:45.960
that the individual themselves probably needs a fair degree of

348
00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:51.269
coaching and help and insight into themselves as why they

349
00:20:51.309 --> 00:20:53.390
need to do that. Right.

350
00:20:53.509 --> 00:20:56.049
Well, and they're not interested in you in that moment, right?

351
00:20:56.069 --> 00:21:00.589
They're not interested in an exchange of information or curiosity, right?

352
00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:04.930
And that's that there's no openness or willingness or readiness

353
00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:09.390
for the space between us to grow in the way

354
00:21:09.430 --> 00:21:11.890
that we interact and share with each other. And really

355
00:21:12.309 --> 00:21:14.640
one of the theories that I leaned into, which.

356
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.339
Comes through collective.

357
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:20.579
Leadership theory is from South Africa. It's the concept of Ubuntu,

358
00:21:21.059 --> 00:21:23.319
which is I am because you are.

359
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:24.680
I love that.

360
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.170
I am because we are. And so I am forever

361
00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:31.970
changed by our exchange and, right? And that is the

362
00:21:32.009 --> 00:21:35.950
kind of like openness and willingness that chemistry really requires.

363
00:21:36.230 --> 00:21:39.099
And when someone doesn't have that mindset, like the ingredients

364
00:21:39.130 --> 00:21:42.710
just aren't in the soup, plus they also brought a grenade, right?

365
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.000
If they're only interested in talking at you, then there

366
00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:50.220
isn't an exchange for the space between us to grow.

367
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:54.839
Yeah. You know what happens to me when something like

368
00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:58.789
that happens? I just don't say anything. I just sit

369
00:21:58.829 --> 00:22:03.450
back and just listen and then make a judgment as

370
00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:05.009
to whether I'm going to have anything to do with

371
00:22:05.029 --> 00:22:08.970
that individual or that group again. And it's funny, eventually

372
00:22:09.059 --> 00:22:11.500
people will take a breath and say, oh, well, what

373
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.200
about you? Well, by this point, I have no interest

374
00:22:14.259 --> 00:22:17.640
in telling anybody anything about myself. You know, has that

375
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:20.359
ever happened? I mean, yeah, you could have contributed a ton, but,

376
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:24.829
you know, I can't be bothered. So do you have

377
00:22:24.869 --> 00:22:26.710
a book in you, Janice? I think you have a

378
00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:28.009
book in you. Yes.

379
00:22:28.529 --> 00:22:31.549
I believe there is a book coming maybe sometime next

380
00:22:31.609 --> 00:22:35.329
year by the time I finish. I have a couple

381
00:22:35.349 --> 00:22:37.980
of the academic articles that I want to keep writing

382
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.319
so that hopefully that gets published on the theory side

383
00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:46.140
so that I'm contributing to future theory and then translating

384
00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:49.960
that into a public-facing book is definitely in the future. Okay.

385
00:22:50.390 --> 00:22:52.569
So can you share where they're going to be published?

386
00:22:52.589 --> 00:22:55.200
The articles are going to be published or so we

387
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:56.220
can keep an eye out.

388
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:02.420
I will post the, the academic articles like the, the

389
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:04.319
newsletters when, when they are published.

390
00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.200
Yes. Oh, okay. So you'll post them on your LinkedIn

391
00:23:08.299 --> 00:23:13.880
or your, your very good. That's great. So tell me, think,

392
00:23:14.069 --> 00:23:17.950
think three years out. Where do you see Janice Perkins? Dr.

393
00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:19.069
Janice Perkins.

394
00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:24.839
I want to definitely do more writing and speaking so

395
00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:29.059
that I can further do more research and impact related

396
00:23:29.180 --> 00:23:32.940

Unlock your hidden potential.

Listen On

Recent Episodes