Where’s your power-you have more power then you think

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0:45 Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining the show today. I'm very excited to have with us Dr. Sharon Melnick. Dr. Melnick, really, she's a global authority in personal power in leadership, and I love that. How do you find your power? Sharon's written numerous books. You can look her online. She's got a wonderful, wonderful website, and I think she's got great tips for people on how to leverage. Well, first of all, to find your personal power, because many people are not clear on what their power really is. So with that, I'd like to introduce and invite Sharon into the show.

1:33 I'm so excited to be here with you, Linda. Yeah, good. It's so good to see you again. I think the last time we saw each other was in DC, wasn't it? Yeah, right. That was a great session. So Sharon, so tell me, how did you get on this topic? How did you get into this? And I know you're a researcher and you have a PhD and all of that. So probably some of this came from some of that research and and your PhD work that you did, but what, what drove you to helping people find their personal power? Yeah. Well, it's probably going to come at an angle that you don't expect, but you know, I started off my career, I did 10 years of research at Harvard medical school.

2:16 And the research that I did was on intergenerational issues. So what you bring from your own experiences in childhood into parenting in the next generation. And I looked especially like if you had had kind of difficult childhood you know, traumatic experience, who goes on to repeat those patterns and who doesn't. And so I really understood a lot about, you know, kind of what a person brings with them into interactions. And what I, what I understood is, you know, trauma is a power dynamic. Right. That's interesting. Tell me more about that. That's very interesting. I would not have thought that actually. I mean, at its root, it is that because if you are experiencing, you know, trauma, It's because you're powerless, you know, like you, you can't, you know, advocate for yourself or for your well being you you can't get what you need. Um, in the situation, some, someone or some forces are sort of, you know, controlling you or creating conditions in which, um, uh, you're, you're powerless that that's the whole point of, of it actually that that's, um, uh, what, what makes it traumatic. Um, and, uh, so I, I understood a lot about those dynamics and then many years, uh, later after, you know, coaching and training, uh, lots of people, uh, in the workplace, it occurred to me. you know, a handful of years ago. And especially at that time, I was coaching a lot of women leaders and I just kept hearing, you know, I'm not seen, I'm not heard.

3:41 I can't make the impact that I am qualified for. And, you know, it's not just women. I mean, everybody has been experiencing this, I think, especially now. But I think women more so than men, honestly. I think, I mean, for sure, you know, I focused a lot on supporting women leaders and they definitely face that. Um, uh, and also these days, I think that like a lot of leaders just feel like the world, you know what I mean? Is sort of, uh, out of control and the, with the advent of AI, it's like an existential kind of crisis and geopolitics and, you know, supply chain issues. I think people, so all these years later, I thought, um, you know, this is what's really going on for people actually is that, um, you know, people are out of their power and it's, um.

4:29 You mean in general, people feel out of their power. Well, I think, I think these days they do. And so I, I just thought that like a lot of the, you know, and, and again, back to when I started formulating sort of making the connection is that, you know, there would be like, you know. Speak up girlfriend. Do you know what I mean? There'd be so, you know, you know, like kind of thing, the rah rah stuff, terrific encouragement. I mean, none of us can get enough of that, you know, but it doesn't really change anything. If you've been in a reorg and your role has been narrowed or you're in a public meeting and your boss throws you under the bus or whatever like that, it doesn't really help you in the moment sort of like stay in your power and to know how to navigate the situation so that you can make the contribution that you're there to make. But that's what that's what it is when you can stay in your power and use your power for good.

5:28 Yeah, so tell me, so how do you find your power, one, and then how do you use it, stay in it? Yeah, so I see those as kind of two phases of the same thing around power, kind of like being in your power and then using your power for good. So let's take them in order. And so the idea of kind of being in your power is, is to really maximize what it is that you can control. And everybody knows that that's just sort of like, you know, leaders kind of these days, but when you, when you really dig down on it there's actually so much that you can do to kind of stay in the state that you intend. The first thing is to have a really clear idea of like, in terms of the outcomes of your role, who do you need to show up as?

6:21 in order to help one else because that you can control. So having a really clear articulation of who you need to be, and no matter what's going on in the moment to, um, uh, to show up as that person actually immediately puts you back in your power because you're no longer kind of being, um, what I call like being the thermometer, um, Uh, let me say, it's like, so a lot of leaders these days are going through their days, their experiences like that of a thermometer, meaning it's like their mental and emotional state. I mean, who's, you know, going up and down the day, everyone. And, um, and when you're the thermometer, it's like other people act or external circumstances sort of exist. And then you react, right.

7:10 So the climate is created outside of you and then you're just registering and reacting to it. And I think that that's the experience of a lot of leaders these days is that they feel more of the casualty than the creator of the outcomes. But when you're a leader and you're a high performer, it's like you're used to being like, I know how to get results. I know how to bring people along. And I think a lot of people... You know, leaders, they just feel more defeated or overwhelmed or that they're having, they're subject to other people's agenda or they're not getting the kind of support that they need. So they're going through their day as a thermometer. And right there, you're out of your power.

7:56 So what you can do. You're kind of out of control because then you're sort of adjusting yourself all the time. That's absolutely right. Like you, you totally get it. And so a good thing to do is just to think that's. Why we like each other. I got, you totally get it. Yeah. Well, you've lived this, you've coached a lot of people in this, you know? And, um, so, uh, what you want to do is you want to shift from being the thermometer to being the thermostat. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. And when you're the thermostat, you set the tone, like you decide who you will be. You mean you have, um, the ability to set a vision and bring everyone along with it. And this is the idea of you have more power than you think, because you can, you can do that. And you also with the right skillset, you can kind of get back into that, you know, sovereign state of who you intend to be. And, you know, a leader creates the weather on the team and you have to know how to create the weather inside of yourself in order to create the around you. And Gallup did a study just in the last few months.

9:06 Oh yeah. Tell us about that. I noticed that. That's interesting. They said 50% of senior leaders, the most senior leaders are completely stressed out on a daily basis. They're angry, they're sad, they're lonely. So there's all this emotional activation and you really, I think it's like a meta skill of our times. is that you have to know how to get yourself back into that sort of calm, grounded state where you can not only see what's right in front of you and react to it, but maintain the bigger picture of where you're taking people and also just to regulate yourself. And I think that this is one of the things that I think is very important to stay in your power is to be able to see the situation like objectively and not about like what it means about me. And that's hard to do, Sharon. Well, it's a factory setting of our brain. But then, you know, that that's a skill. And when you when you it's important, actually, because when you're out of your power, you know, when you're reacting to what other people are doing and when you're sort of sort of making it mean something about you, really, you're playing your small game because it's just about your personalized momentary concerns. And especially in a world where, you know,

10:39 leadership roles are scarce or the market's unknown and, you know, people can be tempted, you know, kind of to or just... overwhelmed. And so, so stay focused, um, on, on just the moment and how do I, you know, get, get that person, um, to see me or how do I, you know, get people to, you know, have a perception of me or something like that. And it's your small game. And really as a leader, you're here to play your big game. Right. And that's where your power is, uh, actually. And so you always have more power than you think you have your, you have the ability to, you know, be the thermostat, And, um, and to play your big game, we could talk about some examples if you want.

11:22 Yeah. Get that. I would love that. Yeah. There's so many examples of this and it's like, um, like I'll just give you an example, just, you know, rip from the headlines. Like, uh, I'm working, um, with someone right now who's a vice president of like a, you know, one of the fortune 100, um, uh, tech companies, you know, 80,000 person company. And, um, So she went through a reorg. She had a much, you know, she had a leadership role that was narrowed. It was unclear. She couldn't bring her strategic. So she there she was sort of doing what was expected, but not what made her exceptional. You know, that's a good statement. Yeah. What made her exceptional? Yeah.

12:08 And so she was really, she was floundering, you know, she was unclear. She had been sort of her, her promotion had stalled. She was having friction with her boss. And, you know, when she came to me, she was just like, you know, can I make it work here? Do I need to leave? And so it seemed to her like she had no power in this situation, right? Like she was trying to get clarity on her role. She was trying to make the promotion happen and nothing was like moving forward. Um, so it, it seems like she didn't have power, but you, you always have more power than you think. So, you know, one thing that we did was, uh, again, first thing, just immediately. sort of changed the story that she was telling about her boss. So it was no longer like he was doing it to her, but more like he too was sort of felt like he, he didn't know.

12:56 He was powerless too. And he didn't know what to do himself. And he, it was just rolling down onto her. So that made her like, okay, actually I'm going to approach him totally differently and started to more like try to support him rather than, you know, kind of feeling, you know, just undervalued and kind of done to you by him. And that changed their dynamic immediately within two weeks. He's like, I'm going to support your promotion. So then, and then she starts to engage in like, you know, let me see if I can define my role and what do I, you know, really want to advocate for here in my role. She loves, she has these ideas about like retaining customers and attracting new customers. So instead of like waiting for the organization to like figure out what her role is, she, um, she puts on like a customer insights day. She, she leverages some of the findings and, you know, along with her ideas and she starts sharing them with like senior members of the organization. And they're like, this is fantastic.

13:58 This is the direction we need to go. I want you to be talking to this group and I want you to be talking to this group and I'm going to introduce you to these people. And, you know, like within 90 days, the board said, the board of this 80,000 person fortune 100 company has her come in to present her ideas to them. They're like, yes, we should. She's in regular conversations now with C suite and like the chairman of the board. And now they're talking with her about a role. So she was like frustrated that she couldn't get this kind of incremental promotion. And now she's like up here, way up there, like having, the most stimulating strategic conversations. As she said, my confidence is astronomical.

14:42 I've never been more lit up in my career. So that's her big game. Right. And that was, you know, it's almost like that was in quantum physics. Like that was the wave that was possible. And she had to like make it into the particle. She had to make it happen by her showing up in her power and notice how she used her power for good. And look at what she created. And when you're a leader in your power, you raise everyone around you. Look how she's going to take this whole company into like improving retention in the age of AI, a tech company. Yeah. That's, that's really, that's really amazing because AI is, I mean, clearly it's the wave of this century, you know, like telephones and cars. And I mean, AI is really, it's going to shift everything. So, I don't know, this is not a conversation about AI, but what I did want to ask you, what did she actually personally do that made a difference? Obviously you coached her. Yeah.

15:49 Well, I think that, you know, from the very beginning, you know, one of the things that we did is that we really established, like in order to have the outcome that you want, which was much more of this kind of strategic contribution. That's who she is. A high performer, you know? Uh, then, um, so, uh, like I said at the beginning is that she really articulated who does she need to show up as, you know, and, um, she, and then she. Did she look at her, then, then did you help her look at her behavior that either supported that or didn't? Absolutely. So she, you know, really saw herself as kind of the conduit to the voice of the customer. And so she, like when she, when she stopped, uh, like being the thermometer being like, you know, um, uh, uh, frustrated or disappointed with the role as it was. Um, and, um, and where people weren't providing for her, um, uh, kind of the clarity that she needed, she took it on herself to be like, this is who I am. And I'm going to start showing up every day. And that's when she decided to put on this initiative. That's when she said, I'm going to represent this to senior leadership.

17:01 She immediately cleared up the friction with her boss. So then she didn't have, you know, she wasn't going home at the end of the night every day, you know, sort of saying like, oh, you know, I feel like my boss is micromanaging and dumping on me and not appreciating me. So it lifted her mood. We thought of immediate like things that she could leverage, which is around figuring out really what her role was and what she could propose, um, and how she could position herself. So you could see that right from the very beginning, she started to get back in her power and then she created a momentum that just, um, you know what I mean? Just, uh, um, uh, started to spiral up.

17:46 Yeah. You know, spiral down. Right. It's, you know, that's a perfect way of putting it. She got out of the negative vicious cycle, Yeah. A virtuous cycle. And it's important. And let let's talk about burnout here. Yes, I want I was going to get to that. Let's let's let's do that. Because she was now look, let me tell you something. No high performer is saying I'm burned out. That's not a thing for high performer. Right. Because that's perception is like weak. even though the latest studies are like between 77 and 83% of people in companies. So, but I'm just. Saying like, as a high, she didn't, she would never have seen herself that way, but let me, let's circle back to that actually. So she, she didn't think about it that way, but she was in, she was on her way, you know, she was well on her way.

18:35 When we think about burnout and a corporate setting, we tend to think of it is like, it comes from having too much to do. And, you know, especially when it comes to high performers, right. They get, you know, all the work comes onto them. So everyone just thinks, especially like HR, you know, professionals and senior decision makers, they think like, oh, okay, what can we do to lighten their load? And let's give them a mental health day and, you know, a breathing app. And like, you know, this is what we try to do, but burnout doesn't come from having too much to do. Oh, that's so interesting. Say more about that. McKinsey did a study, worldwide study. McKinsey, gold standard, yes? Yes.

19:16 And they looked at what are the predictors of burnout? Oh, how interesting. Workload, Linda. Workload wasn't even in the top five. It was number seven. Wow, that is amazing. It was number seven. What was number one, Sharon? Well, I'll come back to that. No, I'll come right back. That's, of course, the right question. And so it accounted for only 6% of predicting burnout. Wow. That is amazing. Okay. That's negligible. Then they looked at the opposite. They looked at like what predicts like wellbeing, you know, someone like thriving. And what do you think was the number one thing?

20:01 I don't, I don't, I don't have an answer. I know you do. Yeah. Well, I mean, the research, the number one predictor per McKinsey. Yeah. Well-being is what they called self-efficacy. Self-efficacy means you have a sense of control. You feel like you can have an impact. You feel like you can kind of cope and navigate anything that comes at you and kind of make it better. Meaning it's a synonym for being in your power. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Interesting. McKinsey Worldwide Study saying number one predictor of well-being is self-efficacy, being in your power. So this is why I say that burnout doesn't come from having too much to do.

20:46 It comes from too little power. Wow. Yeah. And how do you... Okay, so you recognize that you're not really exercising your power. How do you change that switch? How do you move to exercising your power? Yeah. So, of course, that's the right question. And by the way, just to answer your question, toxic relationships, number one. Oh, really? You know, it's back to where we started, Linda. It's a trauma dynamic. It's a power dynamic. Yeah. Yes. Someone who's toxic. And you can't get seen. You can't get your needs met. You can't, you know, in that way.

21:30 And let me tell you, you know, hot off the presses, if I could share with you. So I've been looking at, I put together a progression from the time that a high performer comes up against somewhere where they don't, their self-efficacy is blocked, some obstruction. Yes. So like my client, her, her role was unclear and narrowed, or maybe you have like a toxic leader or, you know, you, you can't, you, um, you can't get seen your, do you, you, I don't have to explain what it's like to, you know, work with toxic leader. Um, so there's a progression that, um, I've now put together. It's five phases. And I could, I can tell you where a high performer is in the progression and when, or if they're going to burn out and when, and if they're going to leave. I can tell you this model for it. And so, but this person that I was telling you about, she went through the progression. So the first thing that you do is you, you try to overcompensate and over effort. You try to do more. You try, you know, you try to be the golden child. You try to, you know, bring it up again. You try to do the deck another way or, you know, or else you try to, you know, wait for after the launch or after the holiday or, but there's like a lot of effort and rumination.

22:47 Like you're trying to fix it. And then when you put out that effort and over time, it's not fixing the situation. You're not getting the clarity. You're not being valued, whatever. Then what happens, and this is the key psychological turning point, is that the leader goes from seeing the situation as external to them to being internal about them. So you might go, if you have a toxic boss, you might go from saying they're so critical, like unnecessarily critical to I'm not, I don't have what it takes. I don't know if I, I see. So you start putting yourself down. Wow. That is that stage that's phase three. And that's when you start being really, you know, on the, um, and it all comes from these repeated experiences of low self-efficacy comes from. And then in that, um, and this is where my client came to me, she was in the contraction phase. That's the next phase where a high performer, you know, um, uh, starts to sort of be like I don't know that I'm going to follow up on this big idea.

23:49 Right, right. They give up. Yeah, that's what happens. And then the last phase is burnout. They take medical leave or they are so defeated. But what's very important, it's very important for any decision maker or senior HR person listening, is that when a high performer like these people who bring the engine of the company, as they're going through the progression of these phases, What you're seeing is that they're bringing their operational floor, but they are increasingly not bringing you their strategic ceiling. Oh, that's a great analogy. I love that. They seem like they're still high performers and they have a halo of their perception about them and they're showing up to me. They're delivering on the operational work that is clear. But you are not getting from them like what you got from my client, that like the big idea, the bringing everyone along, glue amongst the silos, like the things that high performers that makes them, you're not getting that from them anymore. So there's a lost work capacity way before you see the cost in the actual resignation.

24:59 Wow. That is fascinating, Sharon. So do you have a survey that goes with this or do you, you, you do? Yeah. That's, that's so cool. So, so like when you're going to coach somebody, you, you probably take them through a series of questions, but then you also have a survey so that you can sort of see where they are on that progression. Yeah. So you asked what someone could do about it. So this client I'm telling you about is a perfect example, right? So she's already in stage four. She's already in contraction. She's been through all the other stages, but, getting back in your power really is the first thing, like reclaiming that, resetting that, because you see what she did. She saw things that she could leverage. She stopped making the relationship with the boss mean something about her. She cleared up that relationship. He immediately said, I'm going to, you know, right.

25:47 Right. Motion. And then she started looking at all the things that she could control. And it's very important to appreciate this because when you're not in your power, you're so just trying to like get the situation to be different and get out of the emotionality and the sort of distress of it and just like the reactivity of it that you lose access to your strategic abilities. Your ceiling, your strategic ceiling. Yeah. She couldn't even see that there was a bigger game that was available because she just was going home at the end of the day going like, can I make it work here? Why do I feel so bad at the end of the day? She had to be miserable.

26:28 I mean, she really had to be miserable. She was stuck. So we turned it around. And then once you're back in your power, then you could see how you can use your power. And she did. And now she's influencing across the whole organization. She's in total momentum. So that's how you get out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's a power. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I love that. And you have two great books out there that I hope people, you know, can log onto your website and, and get a look at them and read them. They're, they're fabulous. They're really fabulous. So Sharon, how does someone get ahold of you? Because I think what you're doing and what you're talking about, is so important for leaders, particularly as they're climbing up the ladder or they may have gotten as high as they're going to go. So, so how does somebody get ahold of you? Yeah.

27:23 Thank you so much. I mean, uh, my website, uh, Sharon Melnick.com, uh, is great. And there's, um, there's a, uh, a, a, like a really quick and dirty, you know, quiz there about like being in your power. Um, and, um, so you can do that, but I also, um, you know, have, uh, um, I'm about to post the survey, uh, there for, um, the, the, like, where are you in terms of the burnout, uh, progression. So, um, I'll get that right up and, uh, and LinkedIn, you know, Sharon Melnick PhD, that's, uh, that's me on LinkedIn. And I really, uh, would welcome hearing from you if you, if you recognize, uh, you know, if you're, if you're listening here and you, you, if you're in that kind of, can I make it work here or, you know, do I need to leave? It's probably because a situation like this where you're, you know, lowered in self-efficacy and not in power. And I just want you to know that there is a bigger game available to you. And, you know, I can help you see it. And I also hope if you're a senior decision maker listening to this, that you get that, you know, here are your high performers, you know, on the pathway to burnout and attrition. And you can absolutely... and absolutely do things to turn this around.

28:37 And I would welcome hearing from you. Yeah. Well, I, you know, well, you know, I think you're wonderful and I think the kind of coaching that you do is spectacular. So I hope people will get ahold of you. And I mean, you are, you've got a great website and you've got a great LinkedIn profile there. And you should, people listening ought to take that little mini survey that you have and see where they are in their own personal power. no matter how good they think they are, whatever. I think that would be a great first step for people. Thank you. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I love talking with you, Linda. Yeah, I love talking with you too, Sharon. Thank you so much for joining the show. And we'll see you soon at our next whatever event is coming up. I don't know what that is, but, you know. Oh, are you going to go to Charleston for New Year's Eve?

29:29 I don't know yet. I don't know yet about Charleston. I'm still putting my plans together. Yeah. But there is an MG100 event in a couple of weeks and I'll be there. I don't know if you'll fly in for it, but um, yeah. Or we'll just have a follow-up chat. Yeah. Perfect. Okay. So, um, thank you so much, Sharon. It was great talking to you and it's great getting your insights and we'll see you soon at one of the events somewhere. Yeah. Thank you, Linda. It's a privilege. Okay. Bye-bye. Thanks everybody for listening and Come to the next show that's going to be up and running soon. Thank you very much.