April 7, 2026
A Quantum Leap in OD
Learn a revolutionary approach to organizational assessment that pinpoints key actions to leap past your competitors. My discussion with Dr Jackson on his revolutionary approach to organization improvement is a must see. We’ll have plenty of groundbreaking insights and actions from Dr Jackson a leading expert in the field.
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The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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Well, hello everybody, thanks for joining again this week. We
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are very excited to have a great show today. I
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have a wonderful guest, doctor Terry Jackson, and he actually
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I have to pull up his bio, but he has
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done some phenomenal work in the area of organizational development
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and organizational transformation. He has created a new way to
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diagnose organizations, which I think is incredibly important. Part of
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being a great organizational development person or human resource person
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I just spoke to a group at UNCW last night
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is to have data and to have information. Accurate data
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and accurate information, not just focus groups, thoughts and perspectives,
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but real diagnosis of what's going on and what's hidden
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in an organization, And I think Terry brings that to
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the table in a way that, frankly, I haven't seen before.
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Terry and I have known each other for a long time,
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and I'm delighted to have you doctor Jackson in the show.
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So tell me what made you think about this, discovering
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the hidden consensus within an organization?
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Render? Good morning, Thank you. That is a great question.
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You know, with my experience in organizational development, all of
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this was started inspired.
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By talking with my daughter, and she was a chemistry major.
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Oh, we're sitting looking at the periodic table, and she
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asked a question, does this concept also apply to business?
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And I thought about it, and I said, well, elements
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in the periodic table and react to each other. So
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yes they do. And so I begin to wonder, how
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could we create periodic table that was related to organization
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versus chemistry.
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Oh I love that. I love that. So how did
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so how did you go about sort of crafting this
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whole thing for yourself?
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Well, you know, that's a good question.
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I sat down and I did the old traditional thing
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as I started putting pen to paper and just gotting
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down my technology.
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But it still works.
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It still works.
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I started putting pen to paper around what my ideas
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were of what it would look like, how many elements
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would be, and you know, I was just looking to
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add aitude for a consultancy. And as I began to
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write down ideas and I shared some of those ideas
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with friends who were in the technology space, they say, hey, man,
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you have something and I can I can help you
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build it. And so I begin to deal with words
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and phrases that we use on a day to day
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basis in the in the corporate setting, you know, like
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vision and purpose and stakeholder accountability, responsibility, uh, you know, inclusion, uh,
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operational efficiency, productivity. And as I dealt with those, I said,
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you know what those are terms that could be a
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part of periodic table for business. And so ultimately I
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came up with sixty of these terms wow, and created
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also what we call the sixth intelligence. And those six
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intelligences are around cultural intelligence, emotional intelligence, transformational intelligence of course,
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and the other three They fit into a framework that
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is very similar to nature and how nature works. Because
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we know that every organization is a living BEV organism
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and because they're not static and people interact all the
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time together.
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How can we make this work?
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And that's so that's how it all came about, just
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tossing around those ideas and finally putting it to paper,
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having a friend build it, and so far, so good.
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Yeah. Well, you know, when we were talking the other day,
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I didn't realize that you focused then on technology too
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in your PhD. And I was like, oh, so that
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makes incredible sense, incredible sense. So I saw an analysis
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you did of a local business here in Southport actually,
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and it was very insightful, very incredible. Where have you
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used this and how is it driven change for an organization?
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You don't have to give the company names unless you
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want to out.
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Of Well, you know there's a healthcare system that I've
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used it, right, and so when I ran the scenario
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for you, the system that I did have are using
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it with a currently is a smaller system. But we
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went in because they were set on having transformation become
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a part of the DNA of their organization. And so
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what we did was we we have three assessments that
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we use that helps us triangulate not only what people
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are saying, but underneath the surface of what people are believing.
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Organization.
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Yes, I'm sure you've experienced as I have. We're in
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an organization. We decide that we're going to be structure,
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go through a transformation, and everybody seems excited outwardly to
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say we need it, yes, yes, yes, And what happens
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is what they truly believe is can't go through transformation.
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We're going to lose our jobs.
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Yes, absolutely.
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And so by understanding that hidden consensus, we can begin
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to understand what they believe so that we can craft
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solutions around helping them overcome their challenges with the belief system,
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which we know the belief system is really the culture
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of the organization, right, and so now we're talking about
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making the culture but organization better while we're going through
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this transformative process.
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From caterpillar the butterfly.
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Yeah, oh, I love that this question. Caterpillar to a
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beautiful butterfly. That's so great. Well, you know, that's an
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amazing thing because you know, you and I have worked
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on mergers and acquisitions and we've gone through a lot
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of transformation projects in major companies, and getting to the
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bottom of what people really believe and what they're really
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worried about is key because people won't change if they're
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still fearful of what's going to happen to them. And
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most employers don't want to be upfront and outfront about
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some of that stuff because they're afraid too. So how
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do you address that, terry?
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You know, as I was telling someone yesterday, that has
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to be addressed up front, because that is a reality.
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I remember working with an organization several years ago and
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the CEO telling the organization that they were getting ready
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to partner with this other organization.
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Well, the reality of it all is it wasn't a partnership.
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Never is.
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Someone is being acquired, that's exactly right.
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And so they were being acquired, but the language in
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the organization was partnership. And so I finally told him
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one day, I said, when are you going to tell
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them that this is not a partnership. They are thinking
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that they're going to be equal to those in the
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same positions that the organization, but in fact, what may
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happen is some of these positions that they have here
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this organization don't exist any.
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Longer and they're redundant.
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Yes, absolutely, And there was there was fear of telling
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the people that it was going to be a they
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were being acquired. He continued with the language of partnership,
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and it didn't do well for the morale of the
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organization being acquired because when they realized it, they said, well,
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he didn't tell us the truth. So the truth in
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organizations with transformation and issue is could be told up front.
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Here are the possibilities of what's going to happen as
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we move along this line of transformation.
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Yeah, yeah, that's very very powerful. And do you share
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the diagnosis that you do with the full organization or
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how do you share it back?
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Yeah?
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So what we do is we go in and we
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do this. We do three assessments that gives us great
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insight into culture, great insight into what they believe as
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an organization, insight into what the actual individual executives believe.
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When we get that insight, we go back and we
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do a debrief and we show them how they what
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they believe as individuals and what they believe.
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As a team, and then factistating.
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Yes, and then what it takes in order to work
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on those beliefs so that the transformational process can be
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for successful. What our system also does in a real
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time basis is as we go through that analysis, we
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benchmark how they are against those within their industry. And
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so they'll see on a rip, yes, they see a
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real time benchmarking and then based upon the challenges that
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they face, it makes recommendation in real time because it
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is AI and it is predictive analytics at the same time.
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And so with that we can go through and we
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can make predictions not only about their success, but we
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can show them predictions if they are not willing to
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go through the transformation, how it negatively cascades throughout the
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organization and the impact that it'll have by not taking
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the recommendation.
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That's very powerful, Terry, very very powerful. So do you
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find that the executives necessarily see things more rosy than
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the rest of the organization and how do you get alignment?
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Bit So, what do you see when you when you
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work with the executives? Are they in the same psychological
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mindset as the other the rest of the team in
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the organization.
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I think it's a it's a simple answer, and the
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simple answer is no, right, they're normally there. There normally
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is a perception gap, and that perception gap is when
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you ask the executive team, you know, how is the organization,
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they give you a rose colored reality that their views
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that they're living through because they're thinking vision, how do
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I move this organization to the next level of performance?
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How do we gain more market here?
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So I'm looking to the future and I'm looking at
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it from a rose colored pair of glasses, and that's okay.
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But when I go to those on the front lines
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who are doing the actual work, the perception is different.
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So we have an assessment. It actually measures that. That's
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how we get to the belief que methodology measures the
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perception system and the subjectivity of human beings. And so
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once we get the two from the front line as
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well as from the executives, we do a debriefing that
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includes both to show them where they are from an
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executive perspective as well as from a frontline perspective.
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Interesting, and are people ever in denial about that on
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the executive level or.
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You know what they normally say?
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They make comments like wow, we really didn't understand what
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was going on at other levels of the organization. We
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were so focused on where we are here, we lost
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touch with the everyday employee and what their tasks are
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and how those tasks move the organization along. And so
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often without having some pool or tool to help them
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stay in touch with the every day employees. It's easy
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to have a different perception because of the space that
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they're walking through as an executive, and so what we
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try to do through real time data is always they
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have Actually we create these dashboards that they can see
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on a daily basis, real time, and then we suggest
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that they take the assessments on a quarterly basis, so
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everybody is always updated as to if their perception gaps,
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or if you've implemented where the improvements have happened, or
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maybe where you've stall.
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Right, Yeah, that's fascinating. What a great sort of reiterative
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tool for senior leaders and for employees too. I mean,
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where have you have you seen? I'm sure you have,
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but I know this is a new tool in many ways,
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but have you seen big different differences where alignment does
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come into play?
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Yes, And I'm glad that you mentioned that, because part
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of what the tool does automatically is it goes in
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searching for the alignment between those at different levels of
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organization as well as those in different departments of the organization,
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and as that alignment happens, we look at the alignment
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and say, okay, here's what the people are saying. Now
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let's look below to get back to the hidden consensus. Yeah,
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because that hidden consensus, now added to the alignment, builds
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a strong It gives you a strong picture of where
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you are and helps you develop a vision of where
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you want to go. But where you're going on the
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new journey what we call the transformation journey from Caterpillar
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to Butterfly, it's driven by real time data that you
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can see versus having to guess where we actually are.
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We're going to show you where you are step by step.
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So do you find that's absolutely brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And
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do you find that there is hidden consensus in the
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organization that just hasn't been surfaced, but that people have
241
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a greater sort of view and understanding and belief about
242
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what's going on in a company then is recognized.
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68
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126
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127
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128
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129
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132
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133
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134
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135
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136
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137
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138
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139
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140
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141
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142
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143
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145
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146
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147
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148
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149
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150
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151
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152
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153
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158
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159
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161
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162
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164
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