April 21, 2026

Connection is the Secret Sauce

Show Notes
Transcript

Join me as I talk with Morag Barrett an ex pert on workplace connectivity and how connection builds trust and therefore productivity. Morag has written numerous books - the latest one is YOU ME WE. A must read. And she is a sought after keynote speaker We’ll be discussing how you build those lasting bonds that make all the difference in being an okay company to one that really rocks.

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The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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W FOURCY Radio.

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Hello everybody, thanks for tuning in. Look forward to a

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great discussion today with Morag. Barrett Morag is an outstanding

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organizational development consultant. She works with a lot of great

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leaders around the world. She has numerous books that she's

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written as a fabulous insight into how organizations work and

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more importantly, how important connection is. Connectivity is probably one

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of the biggest issues that we have today. There's a

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lot of isolation, there's a lot of changing dynamics in

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the workplace, being at the office or not at the office,

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and the whole point of connection is really critical to

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organizational performance. So with that, I'd like to introduce Morag Barrett,

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who also is a friend, and we wrote a book

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together and on top of that we still like each

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other after that. You know, there's very bad. There's very

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few people that can write together and still emerge friendships.

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So where the lucky one. It's really likely word, So

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welcome Morag. So thanks, Linda. Tell me about tell me

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about this whole notion of connection and why it's the

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secret starce for organizations.

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Well secret indeed, because I wish I'd realized it sooner

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in my career. If I look back early in my career,

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I valued independence. It's how I've been raised, you know,

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back cup for yourself, do what you've promised to do.

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Give me a project, I'd go and do it with

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a minimum of supervision. But I have come to realize,

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and all my research continues to reinforce that it's interdependence

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that matters. And if you've heard that whole adage, I

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mean you think about our origin story. Forget six degrees

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of disconnection. It is more like two degrees of connection.

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We are more connected to the people around us than

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we often realize. And if you slow down and have

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a conversation that shows curiosity, that asks a little bit

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about their journey. I guarantee that we can all find

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something that we have in common, whether that's places, people experiences,

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and that makes us better together.

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I totally agree with that. And you know, actually you

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triggered for me how we actually met. Actually I was

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sitting at a bar with Marshall Goldsmith having a cocktail

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and you came over and you said hello, and you

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started talking to us, and that was the beginning of

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a fabulous friendship.

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It's interesting because I remember that, but I remember it

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a little differently.

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You remember it well.

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From my side, this was a big deal because I

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had just published my first book, Cultivate the Power of

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Winning Relationships, And this is twelve fifteen years ago, and

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we wasn't old. Yes it's that long ago, but where

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we're wearing well. In the years ago, we went to

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an author's summit hosted by Saint so neither of us

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had somebody with us from our teams because we were

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both solopreneurs. And I remember spending the day and in

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the evening as much as I can do the keynote

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speaking and big stage and I love it, and I

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get energized with the leadership programs I run one on

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one small talk inside my head is terrifying, and one

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on one small talk in America fifteen years ago was

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even more terrifying, because what do I know about American sports,

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et cetera. But I decided, I'm going to go down

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to the bar area this evening and I'm going to

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make some new friends. So I had plopped myself down

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in the middle of a group before I came to

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talk to you, only to discover they were in the

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midst of a business meeting.

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I did realize we had to climb out.

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Of the group because I'd gone into the corner window seat,

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not even an easily accessible seat. I extricated myself and

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I remember standing there feeling awkward, thinking like middle school.

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They're looking at me, they're laughing at me. Oh my goodness,

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what am I going to do. I'm going to try

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one more time, and I saw you. You're back talking

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to a gentleman. I didn't know who it was at

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that time, and I remember that we'd sat together in

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a breakout session and we immediately hit it off. So

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I thought, I'm going to go and say hello to Linda.

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So I walked up to you, and yes, you did

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have a cocktail. You and Marshall were talking because Marshall

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turns to look at me as well, and you were

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having a business meeting also.

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That's right. We were talking about how you addressed Saudi

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Arabia because I was going to give a speech in

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Saudi Arabia.

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Wow.

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And he was telling me, you know what not to

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talk about. Don't discuss religion, make no comments about you know,

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cultural comments. And so we were doing it, but we started.

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I picked up on that. We exchanged smart, nice teas,

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and then I'll admit two too down. I scurried back

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to my room and spent some time there recomposing myself.

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But as with all of these moments, I thought nothing

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more of it until you phoned me two years later

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to say would I write the future Proof Workplace with you?

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And that goes back to my opening comment that the

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relationships that we build, even fleetingly, can blossom into a

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joint authorship of a very successful book and a long

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term friendship like we have. And that's my mission. It's

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to create those cultures of connection, the opportunity for all

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of us to feel like we belong. And given that

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we spend most of our working time at work My

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focus is on those professional relationships in the office, in

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the hybrid, in the remote. There are still things that

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we can and should and need to do in order

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to build that culture of connection.

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I want to get to that, but I also want

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to and I am going to let you get to that,

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but I also want to remember, didn't we do a

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big project together in Mexico? Yes, we did a project

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together in Mexico in Mexico City. It was an orange

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juice company or something like that. I don't know, but

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that was pretty fun, right. We would fly down there,

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we would meet, we would do our thing. I think

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we were taking them through a leadership thing and all

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of that. That was a fun event. I thought, Well,

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it wasn't an event. I think we were going down

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there for almost six months, wasn't it something like that?

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Yes, we were. So it was in the midst of

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writing the book, and there was a lot to learn

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from you.

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Well, I don't know about that, but we learned a

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lot from each other. So tell me what are the

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keys to connectivity?

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Well, first of all, so in our research, we have

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something we've described as the ally mindset profile, and you'll

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many of us have done gallops and Gay Survey, and

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this was inspired by question ten of the twelve questions

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that they asked to find out if you have an

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engaged workforce, and question ten, through its whole life cycle

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for more than twenty years, is one of the most

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pushed backed on and contentious questions, and the question is

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do I have a best friend at work? And leaders

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often will push back on gallop and say, well, can

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we take that question out? But their research is very

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clear if you can answer yes to their twelve questions,

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but if you can especially answer yes to do I

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have a friend at work, then you are more likely

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to have an engaged workforce, which increases the bottom line.

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It reduces turnover, and for us it's not just about

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the business results. Science and research has shown that having

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friends at work and in life makes us happier, makes

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us more productive, but also has huge health benefits. So

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the work was inspired by do I have a friend

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at work? Of course that question is no, I don't

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because Linda gets all the best projects. Linda promotion I

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should do it allows us to sit back and wait

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for others to come to us. So in our research

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we turn that question on its head interesting and we

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ask am I a friend at work.

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I like that.

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I guess, yeah, to go first, you have to go first.

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And it's am I a friend at work? Not just

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in a proactive for others' way? But am I also

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a friend at work for myself? Because I don't know

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about you. As the primary bread winner in my family

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three boys, a household, strong work ethic that I inherited

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from my parents, I would always come at the bottom

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of the to do list. So going to the gym,

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don't have time, doing something for fun, don't have time

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because there's always work to be done. And so that's

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why we reposition the question, do I have a friend

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at work? Looking at am I an ally to others?

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But am I also an ally to myself? And that

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brings me nine set profile? And you asked what does

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it take? Well, we identified five practices that if we

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are thinking and doing and being, makes us more likely

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to be that go to colleague that others seek out,

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that gets those opportunities, but also does it in a

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way that refuels us versus draining us.

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Yeah, I think I think that is. It's such a

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beautiful twist on that question, which has been around, as

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you well know, for a long time and used as

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a link to productivity. Have you linked your allied mindset

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questions to productivity outcomes? Have you? Have you been able to.

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Do that so productivity specifically know But here's what's interesting

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you mentioned right in the introduction about how connection matters,

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especially when we're working in a hybrid environment. We've had

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more than one thousand leaders who've taken our ally mindset profile,

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and anybody watching or listening you are welcome to contribute

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to our research and do the same for free. And

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you do that by going to the website sky Team

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skye Team dot cloud like in the sky SkyTeam dot

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cloud forward slash you me we and that will take

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you straight to the self assessment and you'll get your

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report automatically.

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But he did, by the way, and yes, survey. It's

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a wonderful survey and very insightful and the report is terrific.

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I think, Okay, well, I'm.

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Glad you liked it. There you go. But it talks

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about the five practices I've mentioned and gives you an

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idea of what you can do to lean in more

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and turn the dial up or down, because with any practice,

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you can do too much of a good thing. But

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you're asking about productivity, and whilst we haven't specifically done

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a correlation through to productivity, will do that when we're

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working in the house with a client, but generally there

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is no way to test and measure that. But we

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do ask about questions about connection. Do I have a

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friend at work? And so on? And here are some

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of the headline stats. One here four. One in four

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leaders tell us that they have no meaningful relationships at Wow.

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Wow. That's huge.

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That is huge, And the vast majority of those are

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what I would say are between the rock and the

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hard place. They are in the director VP level, that

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middle management, where you're receiving pressure down, you've got pressure across,

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you've got pressure from your team. But one in four

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on average at all leadership levels are telling us they

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have no meaningful connections at work.

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Morag even at the very senior levels.

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Even at the very senior level.

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That's interesting. That's interesting.

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So what that tells me is we're all doing fake

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perky on the camera and then hang up fake but

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there's worse to come. Sixty seven percent tell us that

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their success has been undermined by the words or actions

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of a colleague.

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Oh interesting, did you just so dig into that a

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little bit for me. What that they feel like other

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people sort of sabotage them.

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Yes, so we asked that question, you know, have my

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words has my success been undermined by the words or

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actions of another? Sixty seven percent say yes. And then

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there is a box where people can provide a little

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bit more context around what happened, so that we can

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start to look at the themes as to what do

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we perceive as sabotage. But think about this, there's two

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pieces of data that come from this. We then ask, well,

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where is that sabotage? Where are your most troublesome relationships?

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And we say, is it somebody senior to you? Is

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it appear within your immediate team, is it a peer

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across the organization? Or is it your direct reports? Where

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do you think the biggest Well, it's those going to

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little wings, it's those horizontal relationships. Yes, within my team,

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which is heartbreaking enough. But across the organization.

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Yeah, yeah, Well I'm not surprised at that. Actually, well

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not really, because I'm going back to thinking about my

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own professional life in two major companies, and I could

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see that happening, and I think it happened to me

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too a couple of times, to be honest.

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But why, I mean, did you wake up this morning

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thinking I wonder if I can sabotage more egg on

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this podcast today?

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No? No, but no, But I've competitive the competitiveness of organizations.

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People are having this need to shine, to be recognized,

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and maybe maybe they step on other people off or that.

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I mean, what did you find you? I mean, this

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is your research, so what did you find? Was the car?

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So I think you're right. I mean the system does

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create unhealthy conflict, which then, and as we know as humans,

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when something doesn't go as planned or expected from our perspective,

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we write stories that fill in the gap. So if

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I don't know any different, I'm going to assume the worst,

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that Linda's out to get me. And here's the proof,

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because she interrupted me. And I'm an habitual interrupter. So

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I'll often use that one as a low grade example.

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And when I asked, well, when a colleague continually interrupts you,

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what do you think? And often i'll hear from leaders,

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well that they're rude, they're self aggrandizing, they just want

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the spotlight. It then moves to the well, obviously I've

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got nothing to add what I said doesn't count. It

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goes from they're terrible to I'm terrible. Oh yeah, And

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then when I ask, what does it do to your behavior?

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Either well, I interrupt them, So now we get into

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a battle of wills or I shut up and I

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stop contributing. Either way, business and results and decisions suffer

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because I'm not sharing the information that I have. Now

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when I turn it around and say, well, okay, intent,

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do you think I interrupt because I want to be

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perceived as rude, self aggrandizing, because you've got nothing useful

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to say, And of course the answer is no. I mean,

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there's zero one percent of people who may be doing

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it that way, but for the vast majority of us,

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it's just a bad habit that we've lost sight of.

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And so what do we do? I mean, I'm keynoting

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an event later on in May, and the leadership there

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specifically are saying that they want practical and pragmatic ways

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to break down the politics, silos and turf wars.

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And this is where it gets.

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Ironic, because we're all playing for the same company logo

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that's on our shade, and all of that internal friction

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that we cause by my team's better than your team,

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or yeah, don't talk to that group because it just

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slows everything down, and it starts one conversation at a time.

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It's the Heylinda, I realized that the last few meetings

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I may have interrupted you, or it feels like we're

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butting heads. What's happening for you? And when we ask

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the question, we can have a conversation that starts to

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put those misunderstandings either oh my goodness, no, that was

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not my intent to make you look small, feel like

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your opinions don't matter. Quite the opposite, and in fact,

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thank you for flagging that. My interruption lands that way,

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and then I can commit or not to doing better.

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So serversations, one conversation, especially when we're sitting at home

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ruminating about how dare they the righteous, indignation, the frustration, Well,

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don't keep it to yourself. Find a way to have

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that conversation with the team, the leader where that is

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coming from.

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Do you find that people do that? I mean, do

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they do that? Or yes? Because you're coaching them and

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you're helping them understand, do they follow through?

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Yes? Is the answer? So, and it can start small.

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It doesn't have to be the conflict driven conversation. Sometimes

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I know at the heart, all we want each of

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us is to be seen, value, heard and appreciated, absolutely

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treated with respect. We don't have to be best friends,

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hanging out every evening, come home to meet my mother,

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but while we're at work together, we need to be

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able to work respectfully together. So seeing value, heard and appreciated.

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Here's a quick way that I guarantee will make a

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huge deposit into any relationship bank account. Here here's what

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you need to do, all right, I'm gonna ask you

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to do it. Think about I'm gonna ask you to

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do this. Well, you can do it verbally with me,

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will go it out loud for everybody listening or watching.

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You're going to need your phone for this, and I'm

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pretty sure it's not very far away. But if you're

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driving and listening, hopefully not driving and watching, but driving

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and listening, you can save and do it when you

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get safely to your destination. But I want you to

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think about a colleague, maybe somebody on your current team,

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but certainly somebody from your career that you would jump

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at the chance to work with again. So first off, Linda,

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who if you could if you could work with them again.

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Who would you want to work with and what is

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it about them that made them come to mind? Made

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them special?

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Oh do? Yeah? Oh I do? Oh Okay, Well, I

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would say Carol Anderson. She was the head of I

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don't know, she was a big head of whatever, a

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ge and she was great. She was my boss, She

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was very supportive, she was just terrific to work for.

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She became a friend.

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Actually, so you go, so Carol yay. And everybody listening

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and watching has got a somebody. It could be a

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high school coach, a music band leader. It could be

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your mentor, or a teacher at school, your first boss.

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It really doesn't matter who. But when I asked leaders

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to then talk about what made them special, here's what

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becomes clear. Every single time. Rarely, if ever, does anybody

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get remembered because of how smart they were or their

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technical competence. It is all about how they made us feel.

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They gave me feedback I needed to hear. They took

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a risk on me before I was ready. They saw

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potential in me. They were just fun to hang around.

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We got through this company crisis together. I mean, there's

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all sorts of things and so that's the first. Aha.

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But whilst IQ and technical skills are absolutely important, they

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are the table stakes that get you a seat at

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the table. But what keeps you at that table and

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in people's minds is how you made them feel what

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you did for them. So you asked about follow through.

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What I will do now is I then ask leaders

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in my workshops, in my keynotes on my podcasts to

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get out their phone and send a message to that person.

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So to send a message to Carol through LinkedIn text,

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email and message to the universe if they're no longer

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on the planet. That just says, hey, Carol, I was

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thinking of you today. I just want you to know

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I really appreciated our time working together. And here's why.

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And I have seen that in so many ways. People

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will send the message, they'll get the reply back, which is,

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oh my goodness, I so needed to hear that today

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and how are you well. That's one way you start

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to build connecttion versus disconnection.

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Yeah, and disconnection and trust is a key part of that.

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I mean, you build trust for somebody because they've opened

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up to you in a way that they wouldn't and

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maybe you think you think they're sabotaging you, but you're

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really not, and getting that clarity is really important. Okay.

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So that's one, two, that's three, four and five. Okay.

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So connection and compassion. Understanding the person beyond their job

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title is the second of the five practices that make

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for all mindset. The first is abundance and generosity. When

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we look at success as a finite resource, then that

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tends to drive the selfish behaviors where we coud information.

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It's my team versus your team. But the book is

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called You, Me, We because what I want to understand

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is what is your definition of success? That's the you

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bit For me, here's my definition of success or what

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it means to be a good leader. What it means

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to be on time for a meeting. So here's another one.

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I'll use this as an example. Let's assume that we

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are going to an event and we need to arrive

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at reception and then get signed in, you know, the

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usual security requirements at the destination. What does arriving on

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time for that meeting look like for you, Linda? Is

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it five minutes before, is it thirty minutes before? Is

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Connection is the Secret Sauce

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