Connection is the Secret Sauce

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of w FOCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or it's employees or affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio.

0:46 Hello everybody, thanks for tuning in. Look forward to a great discussion today with Morag. Barrett Morag is an outstanding organizational development consultant. She works with a lot of great leaders around the world. She has numerous books that she's written as a fabulous insight into how organizations work and more importantly, how important connection is. Connectivity is probably one of the biggest issues that we have today. There's a lot of isolation, there's a lot of changing dynamics in the workplace, being at the office or not at the office, and the whole point of connection is really critical to organizational performance. So with that, I'd like to introduce Morag Barrett, who also is a friend, and we wrote a book together and on top of that we still like each other after that. You know, there's very bad. There's very few people that can write together and still emerge friendships.

1:58 So where the lucky one. It's really likely word, So welcome Morag. So thanks, Linda. Tell me about tell me about this whole notion of connection and why it's the secret starce for organizations. Well secret indeed, because I wish I'd realized it sooner in my career. If I look back early in my career, I valued independence. It's how I've been raised, you know, back cup for yourself, do what you've promised to do. Give me a project, I'd go and do it with a minimum of supervision. But I have come to realize, and all my research continues to reinforce that it's interdependence that matters. And if you've heard that whole adage, I mean you think about our origin story. Forget six degrees of disconnection. It is more like two degrees of connection.

2:49 We are more connected to the people around us than we often realize. And if you slow down and have a conversation that shows curiosity, that asks a little bit about their journey. I guarantee that we can all find something that we have in common, whether that's places, people experiences, and that makes us better together. I totally agree with that. And you know, actually you triggered for me how we actually met. Actually I was sitting at a bar with Marshall Goldsmith having a cocktail and you came over and you said hello, and you started talking to us, and that was the beginning of a fabulous friendship.

3:35 It's interesting because I remember that, but I remember it a little differently. You remember it well. From my side, this was a big deal because I had just published my first book, Cultivate the Power of Winning Relationships, And this is twelve fifteen years ago, and we wasn't old. Yes it's that long ago, but where we're wearing well. In the years ago, we went to an author's summit hosted by Saint so neither of us had somebody with us from our teams because we were both solopreneurs. And I remember spending the day and in the evening as much as I can do the keynote speaking and big stage and I love it, and I get energized with the leadership programs I run one on one small talk inside my head is terrifying, and one on one small talk in America fifteen years ago was even more terrifying, because what do I know about American sports, et cetera. But I decided, I'm going to go down to the bar area this evening and I'm going to make some new friends. So I had plopped myself down in the middle of a group before I came to talk to you, only to discover they were in the midst of a business meeting.

4:53 I did realize we had to climb out. Of the group because I'd gone into the corner window seat, not even an easily accessible seat. I extricated myself and I remember standing there feeling awkward, thinking like middle school. They're looking at me, they're laughing at me. Oh my goodness, what am I going to do. I'm going to try one more time, and I saw you. You're back talking to a gentleman. I didn't know who it was at that time, and I remember that we'd sat together in a breakout session and we immediately hit it off. So I thought, I'm going to go and say hello to Linda. So I walked up to you, and yes, you did have a cocktail. You and Marshall were talking because Marshall turns to look at me as well, and you were having a business meeting also.

5:34 That's right. We were talking about how you addressed Saudi Arabia because I was going to give a speech in Saudi Arabia. Wow. And he was telling me, you know what not to talk about. Don't discuss religion, make no comments about you know, cultural comments. And so we were doing it, but we started. I picked up on that. We exchanged smart, nice teas, and then I'll admit two too down. I scurried back to my room and spent some time there recomposing myself. But as with all of these moments, I thought nothing more of it until you phoned me two years later to say would I write the future Proof Workplace with you?

6:18 And that goes back to my opening comment that the relationships that we build, even fleetingly, can blossom into a joint authorship of a very successful book and a long term friendship like we have. And that's my mission. It's to create those cultures of connection, the opportunity for all of us to feel like we belong. And given that we spend most of our working time at work My focus is on those professional relationships in the office, in the hybrid, in the remote. There are still things that we can and should and need to do in order to build that culture of connection.

7:00 I want to get to that, but I also want to and I am going to let you get to that, but I also want to remember, didn't we do a big project together in Mexico? Yes, we did a project together in Mexico in Mexico City. It was an orange juice company or something like that. I don't know, but that was pretty fun, right. We would fly down there, we would meet, we would do our thing. I think we were taking them through a leadership thing and all of that. That was a fun event. I thought, Well, it wasn't an event. I think we were going down there for almost six months, wasn't it something like that? Yes, we were. So it was in the midst of writing the book, and there was a lot to learn from you.

7:42 Well, I don't know about that, but we learned a lot from each other. So tell me what are the keys to connectivity? Well, first of all, so in our research, we have something we've described as the ally mindset profile, and you'll many of us have done gallops and Gay Survey, and this was inspired by question ten of the twelve questions that they asked to find out if you have an engaged workforce, and question ten, through its whole life cycle for more than twenty years, is one of the most pushed backed on and contentious questions, and the question is do I have a best friend at work? And leaders often will push back on gallop and say, well, can we take that question out? But their research is very clear if you can answer yes to their twelve questions, but if you can especially answer yes to do I have a friend at work, then you are more likely to have an engaged workforce, which increases the bottom line.

8:41 It reduces turnover, and for us it's not just about the business results. Science and research has shown that having friends at work and in life makes us happier, makes us more productive, but also has huge health benefits. So the work was inspired by do I have a friend at work? Of course that question is no, I don't because Linda gets all the best projects. Linda promotion I should do it allows us to sit back and wait for others to come to us. So in our research we turn that question on its head interesting and we ask am I a friend at work.

9:24 I like that. I guess, yeah, to go first, you have to go first. And it's am I a friend at work? Not just in a proactive for others' way? But am I also a friend at work for myself? Because I don't know about you. As the primary bread winner in my family three boys, a household, strong work ethic that I inherited from my parents, I would always come at the bottom of the to do list. So going to the gym, don't have time, doing something for fun, don't have time because there's always work to be done. And so that's why we reposition the question, do I have a friend at work? Looking at am I an ally to others?

10:08 But am I also an ally to myself? And that brings me nine set profile? And you asked what does it take? Well, we identified five practices that if we are thinking and doing and being, makes us more likely to be that go to colleague that others seek out, that gets those opportunities, but also does it in a way that refuels us versus draining us. Yeah, I think I think that is. It's such a beautiful twist on that question, which has been around, as you well know, for a long time and used as a link to productivity. Have you linked your allied mindset questions to productivity outcomes? Have you? Have you been able to.

10:54 Do that so productivity specifically know But here's what's interesting you mentioned right in the introduction about how connection matters, especially when we're working in a hybrid environment. We've had more than one thousand leaders who've taken our ally mindset profile, and anybody watching or listening you are welcome to contribute to our research and do the same for free. And you do that by going to the website sky Team skye Team dot cloud like in the sky SkyTeam dot cloud forward slash you me we and that will take you straight to the self assessment and you'll get your report automatically.

11:38 But he did, by the way, and yes, survey. It's a wonderful survey and very insightful and the report is terrific. I think, Okay, well, I'm. Glad you liked it. There you go. But it talks about the five practices I've mentioned and gives you an idea of what you can do to lean in more and turn the dial up or down, because with any practice, you can do too much of a good thing. But you're asking about productivity, and whilst we haven't specifically done a correlation through to productivity, will do that when we're working in the house with a client, but generally there is no way to test and measure that. But we do ask about questions about connection. Do I have a friend at work? And so on? And here are some of the headline stats. One here four. One in four leaders tell us that they have no meaningful relationships at Wow.

12:33 Wow. That's huge. That is huge, And the vast majority of those are what I would say are between the rock and the hard place. They are in the director VP level, that middle management, where you're receiving pressure down, you've got pressure across, you've got pressure from your team. But one in four on average at all leadership levels are telling us they have no meaningful connections at work. Morag even at the very senior levels. Even at the very senior level. That's interesting. That's interesting. So what that tells me is we're all doing fake perky on the camera and then hang up fake but there's worse to come. Sixty seven percent tell us that their success has been undermined by the words or actions of a colleague.

13:25 Oh interesting, did you just so dig into that a little bit for me. What that they feel like other people sort of sabotage them. Yes, so we asked that question, you know, have my words has my success been undermined by the words or actions of another? Sixty seven percent say yes. And then there is a box where people can provide a little bit more context around what happened, so that we can start to look at the themes as to what do we perceive as sabotage. But think about this, there's two pieces of data that come from this. We then ask, well, where is that sabotage? Where are your most troublesome relationships?

14:06 And we say, is it somebody senior to you? Is it appear within your immediate team, is it a peer across the organization? Or is it your direct reports? Where do you think the biggest Well, it's those going to little wings, it's those horizontal relationships. Yes, within my team, which is heartbreaking enough. But across the organization. Yeah, yeah, Well I'm not surprised at that. Actually, well not really, because I'm going back to thinking about my own professional life in two major companies, and I could see that happening, and I think it happened to me too a couple of times, to be honest.

14:48 But why, I mean, did you wake up this morning thinking I wonder if I can sabotage more egg on this podcast today? No? No, but no, But I've competitive the competitiveness of organizations. People are having this need to shine, to be recognized, and maybe maybe they step on other people off or that. I mean, what did you find you? I mean, this is your research, so what did you find? Was the car? So I think you're right. I mean the system does create unhealthy conflict, which then, and as we know as humans, when something doesn't go as planned or expected from our perspective, we write stories that fill in the gap. So if I don't know any different, I'm going to assume the worst, that Linda's out to get me. And here's the proof, because she interrupted me. And I'm an habitual interrupter. So I'll often use that one as a low grade example.

15:49 And when I asked, well, when a colleague continually interrupts you, what do you think? And often i'll hear from leaders, well that they're rude, they're self aggrandizing, they just want the spotlight. It then moves to the well, obviously I've got nothing to add what I said doesn't count. It goes from they're terrible to I'm terrible. Oh yeah, And then when I ask, what does it do to your behavior? Either well, I interrupt them, So now we get into a battle of wills or I shut up and I stop contributing. Either way, business and results and decisions suffer because I'm not sharing the information that I have. Now when I turn it around and say, well, okay, intent, do you think I interrupt because I want to be perceived as rude, self aggrandizing, because you've got nothing useful to say, And of course the answer is no. I mean, there's zero one percent of people who may be doing it that way, but for the vast majority of us, it's just a bad habit that we've lost sight of.

16:47 And so what do we do? I mean, I'm keynoting an event later on in May, and the leadership there specifically are saying that they want practical and pragmatic ways to break down the politics, silos and turf wars. And this is where it gets. Ironic, because we're all playing for the same company logo that's on our shade, and all of that internal friction that we cause by my team's better than your team, or yeah, don't talk to that group because it just slows everything down, and it starts one conversation at a time. It's the Heylinda, I realized that the last few meetings I may have interrupted you, or it feels like we're butting heads. What's happening for you? And when we ask the question, we can have a conversation that starts to put those misunderstandings either oh my goodness, no, that was not my intent to make you look small, feel like your opinions don't matter. Quite the opposite, and in fact, thank you for flagging that. My interruption lands that way, and then I can commit or not to doing better.

17:58 So serversations, one conversation, especially when we're sitting at home ruminating about how dare they the righteous, indignation, the frustration, Well, don't keep it to yourself. Find a way to have that conversation with the team, the leader where that is coming from. Do you find that people do that? I mean, do they do that? Or yes? Because you're coaching them and you're helping them understand, do they follow through? Yes? Is the answer? So, and it can start small. It doesn't have to be the conflict driven conversation. Sometimes I know at the heart, all we want each of us is to be seen, value, heard and appreciated, absolutely treated with respect. We don't have to be best friends, hanging out every evening, come home to meet my mother, but while we're at work together, we need to be able to work respectfully together. So seeing value, heard and appreciated.

18:57 Here's a quick way that I guarantee will make a huge deposit into any relationship bank account. Here here's what you need to do, all right, I'm gonna ask you to do it. Think about I'm gonna ask you to do this. Well, you can do it verbally with me, will go it out loud for everybody listening or watching. You're going to need your phone for this, and I'm pretty sure it's not very far away. But if you're driving and listening, hopefully not driving and watching, but driving and listening, you can save and do it when you get safely to your destination. But I want you to think about a colleague, maybe somebody on your current team, but certainly somebody from your career that you would jump at the chance to work with again. So first off, Linda, who if you could if you could work with them again.

19:43 Who would you want to work with and what is it about them that made them come to mind? Made them special? Oh do? Yeah? Oh I do? Oh Okay, Well, I would say Carol Anderson. She was the head of I don't know, she was a big head of whatever, a ge and she was great. She was my boss, She was very supportive, she was just terrific to work for. She became a friend. Actually, so you go, so Carol yay. And everybody listening and watching has got a somebody. It could be a high school coach, a music band leader. It could be your mentor, or a teacher at school, your first boss.

20:25 It really doesn't matter who. But when I asked leaders to then talk about what made them special, here's what becomes clear. Every single time. Rarely, if ever, does anybody get remembered because of how smart they were or their technical competence. It is all about how they made us feel. They gave me feedback I needed to hear. They took a risk on me before I was ready. They saw potential in me. They were just fun to hang around. We got through this company crisis together. I mean, there's all sorts of things and so that's the first. Aha. But whilst IQ and technical skills are absolutely important, they are the table stakes that get you a seat at the table. But what keeps you at that table and in people's minds is how you made them feel what you did for them. So you asked about follow through.

21:17 What I will do now is I then ask leaders in my workshops, in my keynotes on my podcasts to get out their phone and send a message to that person. So to send a message to Carol through LinkedIn text, email and message to the universe if they're no longer on the planet. That just says, hey, Carol, I was thinking of you today. I just want you to know I really appreciated our time working together. And here's why. And I have seen that in so many ways. People will send the message, they'll get the reply back, which is, oh my goodness, I so needed to hear that today and how are you well. That's one way you start to build connecttion versus disconnection.

22:04 Yeah, and disconnection and trust is a key part of that. I mean, you build trust for somebody because they've opened up to you in a way that they wouldn't and maybe you think you think they're sabotaging you, but you're really not, and getting that clarity is really important. Okay. So that's one, two, that's three, four and five. Okay. So connection and compassion. Understanding the person beyond their job title is the second of the five practices that make for all mindset. The first is abundance and generosity. When we look at success as a finite resource, then that tends to drive the selfish behaviors where we coud information.

22:47 It's my team versus your team. But the book is called You, Me, We because what I want to understand is what is your definition of success? That's the you bit For me, here's my definition of success or what it means to be a good leader. What it means to be on time for a meeting. So here's another one. I'll use this as an example. Let's assume that we are going to an event and we need to arrive at reception and then get signed in, you know, the usual security requirements at the destination. What does arriving on time for that meeting look like for you, Linda? Is it five minutes before, is it thirty minutes before? Is it ten minutes after?

23:31 You know, it's interesting that you asked that question because I am resoundingly noted and known for being late, and no matter what I do, I'm still always five minutes later or something because I get distracted, and you know I don't. Yeah, I try to focus on it. I try to leave early enough, but then I have to let my dog back in, or I have to do something, and I let you know. It's bad. It's bad. It's very disrespectful. It is. So here is the thing that would then frustrate me. On time for an event where you're going to meet somebody is for me fifteen minutes before so that we can arrive, we can get ourselves settled and composed. We can then announce ourselves at reception and then get up ushered upstairs to arrive at our meeting on time. But of course, if you roll in ten or fifteen minutes late on time in Linda world, by then I'm fuming.

24:29 An old morag would have I'll be honest, seed, and you would have seen the passive, aggressive, short answers to you while I send the implicit message that you've missed my expectations. But what I've learned from talking with leaders is once again, we haven't had the conversation where I've explicitly said, hey, Linda, when we're visiting clients together, on time for me means fifteen minutes early and when you then we can talk about how we help you to do it. Maybe I tell you that the meeting is at quarter two the hour instead of the top of the hour, so that there's that fifteen minutes of Linder's window. That's that's what your strategic strategy is with me, because I've seen meeting notices and then a nine five.

25:13 I have your back Linda at all times. I just want to make sure you're there and able to shine when others are expecting it. And so when it comes back to creating connection, it comes down to making the implicit explicit. What is my definition of success and how is that aligned with or different to yours? And now that we have that of visibility, what are we going to do to ensure that we're better together? And every leader, every team, every organization that I've had the opportunity to work with who's chosen to lean into this has seen an almost immediate turnaround on that sense of belonging connection and ultimately the productivity and bottom line success that you asked about earlier.

25:57 Yeah, and I asked about it earlier, or I'm just going to this is great stuff and I'm so happy, and we have three more to go through, and we're gonna have a part two to this because the other three are very significant, and if you've been watching this show or listening to this show, you know how important the next three are. And then we're gonna do a recap, so there'll be a part two to this show. Thank you. I just really enjoyed it, and as always, we've had a great connection for fifteen years, and I always love working with you and I always love being with you. You're so insightful. Likewise, Part two to come. U