June 2, 2026

Are Mergers and Acquisition great for company Valuations? Yes but…..

Show Notes
Transcript

Join me for a lively discussion with Jennifer Fondrevay on how to mergers and acquisitions right and some classic pitfalls that must be avoided but sadly often are not. Jennifer’s publications in HBR are must reads and this show is a must for anyone in the business world today. Trying to make the most out of M&A.

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Hello everyone, I'm excited to have with me today Jennifer Androi.

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Jennifer's really an exceptional individual. She has done TED talks,

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she has written books. She's an expert in mergers and acquisitions,

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and one of the reasons why I really wanted her

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on the show is to talk about the human side

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of mergers and acquisitions because a lot changes for people.

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So with that, let me introduce Jennifer. Thank you so

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much for joining me.

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Thank you for inviting me. Linda.

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We had such a good time in DC, didn't we

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We did?

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We did? I covered your shoes.

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Yeah, well yeah, they were kind of cute. I've had

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them for years. Actually, oh are they kind of that pink?

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You know?

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So tell me what got you into the M and

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A work. It's tough work, it is, I know.

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If you I've been asked, what's a nice girl like

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you doing in mergers question, I would say, yes, the bigger,

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the billions, the bigger the blood bath, right, phrase that

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I've heard someone else say. I was a corporate marketing

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chief marketing officer and I went through three multi billion

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dollar merger and acquisition deals. And I've been on all

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sides of the deal table. I've been aired, I've been

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part of the team brought in post acquisition, and I've

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been acquired by private equity, which sure you know is

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its own unique experience. So it was really through those

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three experiences that I decided to write a book. I'd

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have to confess my colleagues in the second acquisition, in particular,

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because I had been acquired and now I was leading

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a team that had been acquired, and my colleagues just

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kept saying, man, you really should write a book like

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you seem to know how to get how to get

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people inspired and moving forward. And because I just kept saying, well,

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I've been them. I know what it's like when you're

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acquired and it's a journey and you need the right

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kind of leadership and guide to help you on it.

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That's really what got me into it.

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And that that's a good space because usually when people

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are you know, I used to work for ge Capital,

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and that was that was our life's blood, was buying

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other other businesses. And we always said, oh, this is

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a merger of equals, and it's never true now, as

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you know, and there's winners and losers, and you know,

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dealing with the human side is essential. So so what

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were some of the lessons that you learned about people

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and how you had to deal with people.

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And in all of that, well, I think you know

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what's interesting, and we'll just start with what you what

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you said about your time at ge Capital. The intentions

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are always good, right you say you're a merger of

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equals because you want people to feel okay and you

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want them to uh, you know, not think this is

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the worst thing ever. But one of the things that

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I have found, and it's what I coach my clients on,

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is being transparent and and and recognizing that this is

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a journey for people. I think Linda, you and I

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even talked about this a little bit. When your whole

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identity has been wrapped up in your company and now

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it's merging with or being acquired by or even frankly,

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when you acquire, there is a change in your future

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and you don't know what's going to be. So you

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suffer what's known as ambiguous loss because we all we

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all imagine a pretty kick ass future for ourselves when

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we're up and comers and contributing, and so when that

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future comes into question, you suffer ambiguous loss because you

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don't know what that future will be. And it's why

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the work that I do is really focused on the leadership,

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how to help people navigate this, how to help humans

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navigate this, and how to actually help yourself. Yeah, gated

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as well.

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You know, it strikes me as you say that ambiguous

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loss that almost deals with every part of somebody's life.

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And know they're losing a job, often an emerger, or

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at least a job where they were personally identified with.

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You know, you're getting divorced, you're you know, moving your area.

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How do you help people, you know, deal with that

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ambiguous loss? How do you help them move forward? Because

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a lot of people that's very hard.

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So and I it was divine inspiration. I really have

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to say, as if I were to have this idea

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come to me again, I don't know if it would.

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But when I was writing my book back in twenty eighteen,

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twenty nineteen, I thought, exactly as you did, what have

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I felt these feelings of anger and depression and bargaining?

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And I thought, you know it was a it was

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a bad breakup, you right, right right? And so I thought,

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will help me get through that music? You know, Little

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led Zeppelin, AC DC, Frank Sinatra and Anita Baker and.

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So at nice playlist.

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What if I use that same tool? Right? You had

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mixtapes back then, and so I had mixed tape to

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help me get through the moments. And so in my book,

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I have music, a playlist, a Spotify playlist called From

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Denial to Acceptance to help wow through each of the stages.

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And one of the more profound experiences that I've had

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which shocked me, Linda, I was not expected. I thought, Oh,

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I don't know how this is going to go over.

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But I have people make a playlist in real time.

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So when I'm working with a company that's just been

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acquired or even frankly is the acquirer. I have them

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make a playlist. They pick three songs, a song that

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best describes how they felt when they first heard the news,

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a song that best describes how they feel right now,

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and a song that best describes how they want to

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feel ninety days from now. And it's really it's amazing

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for a number of reasons. One because people realize they're

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not alone in the feelings that they're that they're going through.

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And they also everyone picks a different song, right, so

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it helps you as a leader to understand every one

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is going through this in a different way. You know.

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So I've heard everything from take this job and shove

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it to it that might be mine, or you know,

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can't stop believing you know a lot of journeys Fleetwood

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mag and so it's it's a it's a wonderful moment

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for people in a company to realize, ah, okay, I'm

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not going crazy, these are legitimate feelings and we can

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get through this together. And so for me, that's been

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one of more one of the more powerful things that

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I unintentionally did and has made you know, has made

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my keynotes in particular well known in M and A

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circles because of that exercise.

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Yeah, that's a great exercise. I really love it. I

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could see where you could use that in a lot

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of places, you know. So so tell me how did

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you reinvent yourself?

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Oh god, it's I'm still in progres. It's a work

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in progress. Yeah, particularly because, as my dad jokes, when

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I was eight, I had planned to be ambassador to France.

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So, wow, do you speak French? I do?

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My father's French.

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Oh so cool.

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At this point he just thinks I'm on a very

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circuitous path to ambassadorship. But I yeah, we spoke French

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at home. I went to Thunderbird International Business School all

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with the Ambassador to France, and thank god, I had

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a really kind professor who asked me one day, so

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what do you plan to do when you graduate from Thunderbird?

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And I said, oh, I'm going to be ambassador France.

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And he, after you stopped laughing, it was very kind.

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And you just know, Jennifer, and if anyone could do,

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you could, he said, But I'm like a fallback plan,

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and he said, and you're really sharp in marketing. I

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don't know, I would just I would just propose that.

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So my first chapter was actually an advertising fifteen years

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in advertising. The next chapter was marketing, where I went

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through my M and A deals, and then this third chapter,

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mergers and acquisitions. I never imagined I would be doing this,

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never it was I won. I didn't like consultants. I'll

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be the first to say, you know, because I'd been

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on the receiving end of consultants who you just don't

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get it what this feels like to try and help

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your team navigate a very emotional period in a company's

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journey and in your career. So for me, the reinvention,

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I think, really was just taking a leap of faith.

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I had interviewed so many CEOs for my book, and

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they kept saying, what are you doing besides the book?

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And I'm sure, Linda, you probably can appreciate this. I

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kept saying to them, do you know how hard it

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is to write a book? Like I was just prout

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to write a book.

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I'm just lucky I got done.

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Yeah, And so I was at that time, I was

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just planning to be another marketing exec at another company

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when a CEO thankfully just said, you know, he said,

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I love this book. It is what does get talked

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about enough. But it dooms deals. There's not enough attention

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to the people part, he said. But to be honest,

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no one's going to run to Barnes and Nobles to

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buy your book because they're going to be too busy

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trying to hold onto their job or figure out which

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end is up. So you need to you need to

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be the catalyst, and you need to build a business

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around this to help help leaders. You know, C suite

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executives really understand what it takes to lead people through

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this transition. So I would have to say that that

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was a catalyst. I also in the summer twenty seventeen

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thought I had breast cancer. Thankfully I did not good.

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But there's nothing like a medical scare to say what

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am I doing? Like, I can't, I can't straddle. I

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was writing the book while interviewing, and so I like,

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I said, you know enough enough signs just said, Jennifer,

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go for it. Give this a try. You're you're passionate

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about helping people, and you know the CEO is right.

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The book wouldn't do it alone.

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Right, I mean it always feels like a great accomplish

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to get the book done, and you think, oh, well,

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you know that was that was my big career step.

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But it's not were we scared stepping out there.

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Terrified terrified because I I had grown up in corporate

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I had had the privilege of being at blue chip

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ad agencies Jay Walter Thompson and foot Cone and Belding,

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which actually, frankly don't exist anymore because because of mergers

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and acquisitions. Right any of my life and in my

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marketing experience, I really loved marketing, and frankly, I know

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it's what's helped me cut through in the work that

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I do now. But I just it was a calling.

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I know that sounds odd, but I just thought, there's

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a reason I felt inspired to write this book to

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create a Spotify playlist. I have ten caricatures in the book,

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so I bring to life the personas that emerge during

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a merger and acquisition, all these creative ideas. I thought,

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it's a message. I need to do something with this,

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and I'm not sure what the next chapter holds.

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I was going to ask you that what do you

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see as sort of your next.

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I would like to teach in the merger and acquisition space.

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I had actually created an M and a center of excellence.

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I had a plan to move forward with I won't

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go into the details, and so that is what I

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think is truly the next step. I realized, I deal

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with the symptoms of mergers and acquisitions, right, you need

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to go upstream, as Dan Heath said, if you've ever

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read his book Upstream right, So where what causes the problem? Upstream? Right?

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I would say, you know, I'm not going to change

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Wall Street and how companies are are incentivized and rewarded, understandably,

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but I could help companies learn to better prepare their

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leadership through an executive education program right brain people and

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help them understand that change management and culture piece is

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as important as the due diligence and quality of earnings

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and the value creation all combined together. So that's that's

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kind of if I were to have a crystal ball,

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that's what I hope I would see.

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Yeah, you know, I personally think that the people side

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is really the most important side. You know, putting together

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the balance sheets, putting together the processes and all that stuff.

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You have teams that do that. I mean that becomes

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self evident. You know, what do you take out here?

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What do you put in here? But it's the people

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that is the most critical aspect of all of this.

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So what did you personally learn about yourself in going

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through all of this? You thought this was going to

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be easy, Huh, I feel.

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Like I feel like I'm going to have to pay

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for the therapy session after No, I think I'm billions.

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I thought I was resilient. I mean, going through a

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merger and acquisition tests you in ways that you that

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you never anticipate. And it's why people ask me a

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lot do you work? This is? This is awesome? Right?

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They love my music, exercise and the personas and all that.

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Do you work in just change in transformation? I do,

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But my specialty is really a merger and acquisition because Linda,

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as you know, you have to experience to understand the

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unique ups and downs, the emotional roller coaster that people

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can beyond as you navigate this part of a company's chapter.

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So for me, what I learned about myself is the

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resiliency of that I thought tested me. But to be

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an entrepreneur, particularly when you get the I don't want

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to say the door has been slammed. Fortunately, I can

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be pretty persuasive and charming.

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You don't know that part, but we know that.

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But I can't tell you how many times where people

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would say, oh, the people are so important, but we're

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all good, right, we have smart people. We can lead this,

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you know, thank you. And so they'll take my card,

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they'll take my book, they'll come back later on when

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things have gone sideways and uh, you know, they've lost

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some great talent, they've lost time and productivity. So for me,

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resiliency and persistence just not giving up. I didn't. I

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didn't know I would be as persistent as tenacious as

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I have turned out to be. And as my dad

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tells me, you know, you don't. You don't take an

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easy path anytime. For me, that's been it.

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You You you showing what your dad knew all along

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about you. Is it persistence and and you know, flexibility

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And you know what I find so interesting. You know,

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obviously New Capital is a big mergers and acquisition company.

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That's how it got built actually, and it's so funny.

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We did a lot of research there and we looked

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at what what acquisitions actually fulfilled the performa you know,

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actually did what we said it was going to do

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and make money and all of that, and every one

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of the places where we did not have an intensive

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people's strategy, that the acquisition did not make performa they

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were huge flops.

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Testimonial because that's you and I both know that is

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that is indeed the case. You have to have that

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people strategy.

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You you absolutely must. And so how do you convince

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the leaders because that's that's really where it starts. You know,

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for them, they probably know where they're going to end

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up at the end of the day. They were either

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out the door with a big package or whatever. But

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how do you convince the leaders that they really need

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to spend time and time, really energy and money. But

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it's more the time and energy on How do you

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convince them that this is is critical to the longer

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term success.

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So here's the here's the toughest lesson I learned. You

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don't You don't.

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Oh.

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I have spent years Blinda. I write for Harvard Business

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Review and Fast Company and Forbes. I'm on wonderful shows

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like yours and podcasts. I'm a speaker. What I have

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learned over that time is I attract the right kind

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of leaders who say peak important. They are the lifeblood

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of this company. And this won't be successful unless I

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bring you or another you know, human Capital Advisor. I'd

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like to think I'm unique though in that idea.

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You are unique, Jennifer.

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You notes and workshops, But I would love to tell

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you here's what you do to convince them. I think fortunately,

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particularly my articles have them see, oh there's another way

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to do this, one that's better, where we could retain

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the talent, where we wouldn't have that productivity drop, where

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we maintain the momentum. But what I've learned is lee

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have to be open to that and recognize the value

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of their people. Otherwise you waste time. You waste precious time.

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And that was a really hard lesson for me to learn.

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I'm just thankful through the work that I do, I

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attract the right types of leaders who have that vision

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and understand that they have to have a people strategy.

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Well, that's sort of like what Marshall always says, you know,

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pick the right leaders to coach, because you can't somebody.

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You can't coach somebody who's not coachable, You can't work

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with an organization that really doesn't see the value in

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all of this. Are you willing to walk away? Have

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you walked away?

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I've learned to do it. It's hard because I think,

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and I suspect you're the same way. I always think, oh,

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you know, maybe if I do the PowerPoint this way,

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or I write the memo this way, then they'll understand

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if I showistics. You know that go back to the

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you know, twenty years ago versus just the last five years.

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You know, I keep thinking, But I have gotten to

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a point, fortunately because I have attracted so many leaders

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who go, you are what we need. I just realized

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it takes up too much time and energy. So yes,

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I have learned to walk away.

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Well, well, what advice would you have for I'm going

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to say women, and not because I'm typically in that space,

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but mergers and acquisitions a hard thing. Working with senior

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leaders at the top of the house is a hard thing.

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I know that. You know that being a woman in

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those kinds of situations where ninety percent of the team

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are female. Maybe the human resource person is a female,

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maybe the marketing person, but most of them are men.

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How do you how do you how do you navigate that? Well?

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What, I'm so glad you asked me this question and

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I wrote about it in forms. I said, women are

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a secret weapon in merger and acquisitions. So what my

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advice is is women, lean into your superpowers, because what

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I see is women have so much unique superpowers to

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bring to a deal. Frankly to business in general. But

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since we're on the topic of m and A, women's intuition.

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Women's intuition when they suppress it and say, oh, that's

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just silly, But what I say to women is that's data.

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You've been gagging that data since you were born. So

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when you think, gosh, something doesn't feel right that guy

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in the deal at the deal table, there's something I

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just doesn't add up. That is intuition, and that is

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because you have been accumulating data that says, hah, there's

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something about this that doesn't work. People also open up

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to women more than they open up to men. So

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I've had more women tell me stories about someone from

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the deal team who revealed something that was very influential

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in terms of how they approach the deal. And women

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also simplify things so that everyone can understand. They make

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the communication easier, to understand what it is that's happening,

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where people are going, what's being done. And so I identified

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the five superpowers that women bring because my hope is

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Linda that rather than suppress these superpowers, that women will

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lean into them even more, and that they will become

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the norm, that it will be, that it will be

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just common behavior in how you approach deals. And so

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it's been wonderful. Once I wrote that article, it just

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it took off. It's one of the most viral articles

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that I've written, and I've been invited to go and

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speak to women's groups about these superpowers because, as you said,

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you know, it's the majority of these deals are.

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Are run by maldominated. Yes.

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And frankly, the men who I interviewed for the articles said,

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oh my god, I hope lean into these superpowers even

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more because they make such a huge difference in our

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ability to get the deal done.

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Yeah wow, Well I'm going to ask those superpowers in

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just a second. But you know, I also find that

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once people start getting into the deal, even if they're

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starting to recognize it's not the best deal, they can't

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let it go because you're already down that path. And

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you know, I've seen that happen numerous times. What do

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you do about that? I mean, can you put the

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skids on things? I mean, can you say you know,

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because emotionally, people are invested and to get them uninvested emotionally.

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It's very difficult. I think that's one of the women's superpowers, honestly.

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Yeah, well, and I think too, And it's one of

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Are Mergers and Acquisition great for company Valuations? Yes but…..

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